Pager Call

[johnrmcgee3]

This subject generates the most grippes at work. As i've said before I work for a private service outside Houston. Management says we dont have the call volume for 24 hour shifts. Instead after we work our 10 or 12 hour shift they put one group each night on pager call. Basically they send each of us home in a unit or squad and we serve as dispatch for after hours call. Each call that we run during the night that is paid for by insurance..etc. we get either 25.00 for bls; 37.50 for als; 50.00 for paramedic. The driver makes 25.00 regardless of the level of call. You may run one call or you run five calls. If the call gets cancelled or for some reason isnt paid for we got nothing. Of course we have to wear our uniforms and been able to respond within 20 minutes. I've looked over the web at various sites about pager but most dont cover ems services. Frankly much is contradicturary and confusing so the area is very gray. Just curious to see if anyone has a similiar system or if anyone has more concrete rules that i can run past management.

 

[ResTech]

That's a screwy way of paying ur ppl. By the time it takes the claim to get processed and insurance co to issue payment... you guys prob wait a month or two before u get paid.

If I'm obligated to be on call I will be paid on-call time regardless if ne calls are received and then get paid a flat rate or hourly for each call.... and paid regardless of how the insurance co issues payment. If Im woken up at 2am Im getting some compensation or Im not working there.

 

[EMTinNEPA]

On average, how many calls do you get per 24 hour period?

 

[ResTech]

One thing u can check is your State Labor and Industry laws... they're may be a rule or law regarding how employers are required to pay employees for being on call. Shoot them an email or call them and ask them directly.

 

[medic417]

Sorry no law violation. Not right but as long as there are people that allow this to happen they will keep it up.

 

[Flight-LP]

This subject generates the most grippes at work. As i've said before I work for a private service outside Houston. Management says we dont have the call volume for 24 hour shifts. Instead after we work our 10 or 12 hour shift they put one group each night on pager call. Basically they send each of us home in a unit or squad and we serve as dispatch for after hours call. Each call that we run during the night that is paid for by insurance..etc. we get either 25.00 for bls; 37.50 for als; 50.00 for paramedic. The driver makes 25.00 regardless of the level of call. You may run one call or you run five calls. If the call gets cancelled or for some reason isnt paid for we got nothing. Of course we have to wear our uniforms and been able to respond within 20 minutes. I've looked over the web at various sites about pager but most dont cover ems services. Frankly much is contradicturary and confusing so the area is very gray. Just curious to see if anyone has a similiar system or if anyone has more concrete rules that i can run past management.

Google is your friend, try it!

In the meantime, here are some references.............

http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/opinion/FLSA/2009/2009_01_14_07_FLSA.pdf

http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/opinion/FLSA/2009/2009_01_16_17_FLSA.pdf

Simply being on call is not generally compensated for unless it requires such restriction that prohibits you to use or enjoy your personal time. On the other hand, the minute you respond in the company supplied unit, you are on the clock and the company is required by federal law to compensate you without regard for reimbursement. Contact the DOL and discuss it with them.

How many red flags DO YOU NEED???? LEAVE AND FIND A DECENT EMPLOYER!

 

[medicdan]

Great links from Flight, but I also just found a discussion from JEMS specific to EMS and on-call schedules. For the lay-person descriptions, see
http://www.jems.com/news_and_articles/articles/when_should_employees_be_paid_for_being_on-call.html

 

[marineman]

That situation shouldn't happen and I would never work for a company that operated that way but it's actually more common than you would think. I know of 3 companies that have a somewhat similar setup. Obviously they get paid no matter what happens with the bill but being POC (paid on call) is fairly regular.

Like medic417 said as long as people keep letting it happen it will keep happening.

 

[johnrmcgee3]

on average during the weekdays which is 11 to 12 hours 2 to 4 calls but have seen as many as 6 in 11 hour period. the weekends are 24 hours they average about 4 per shift but have heard of 6 to 8

 

[TransportJockey]

sounds typical for hobbyist EMS. Is this a volunteer dept?

 

[johnrmcgee3]

no this a private ems service that uses pager call to have 24 service with minimum crew. all paid

 

[WuLabsWuTecH]

if you're on call, then you are required to be paid at least minimum wage. 25 per call in most places would cover that even if the call took a few hours.

Paying based on reimbursement, however, is not. You are not paid on commission, or per sale, you are a non-exempt worker (as I am assuming with the details you provided) and therefore you should be paid regardless of whether or not the insurance pays. If the insurance fails to pay, then your employer can sue them in court as they have standing, but you do not, so you cannot recover those charges. Finally, have you ever heard of McDonald's personnel being told, you'll make minimum wage, but if no one buys a burger then you go home empty handed?

 

[devaE2]

sounds typical for hobbyist EMS. Is this a volunteer dept?

Excuse me?

 

[Sasha]

Excuse me?

Someone who treats EMS like a hobby and not a profession. It's just something they do in their spare time to entertain themselves, harming the rest who try to treat it as a profession and get EMS to be recognized as a true medical profession which will never happen as long as people are able to treat EMS as something cool they do when they leave the office.

 

[Foxbat]

If a paid EMT beats a patient, this fact will be used against volunteers.
If a paid private service screws its employees, it will be used against volunteers.
Typical.

 

[Sparky79]

If a paid EMT beats a patient, this fact will be used against volunteers.
If a paid private service screws its employees, it will be used against volunteers.
Typical.

Yes! Don't you understand? Volunteers are the devil! No volunteer anywhere is ever competent enough to treat any patient. All volunteers do EMS to be cool. If you have a career already where you make a good paycheck, you shouldn't help you're community by volunteering your time, instead you should quit your job, cut your pay in half, and become a "REAL" EMT, then you can complain how all of those whacker volunteers are ruining this field for all of the "dedicated professionals" (even though most of them are only using ems as a stepping stone to a better career in medicine and aren't really all that dedicated to the ems field after all).

If all of the volunteers would just stop giving their time, then the communities they serve would have no choice but to go out to the town common and pick a few ten thousand dollar bills from the money tree so they can hire a full time ems department and then everyone can live happily ever after in the land of make believe.

I am so sick of the attitudes on this forum. Some information on here can be useful and I do learn something from time to time, but mostly it's firefighters suck, basics are useless, career vs. vollie, my stethoscopes bigger than yours, bull crap. Why can't people just admit that different areas call for different approaches? Not every community can afford to pay for a full time EMS service, not every community can staff every truck with 2 medics. A major city should be able to, my town of 2500 residents is not going to pay for 24/7 coverage to do 300 calls per year. We have 2 full timers to cover the town from 8am to 4pm Monday to Friday (when the rest of us non-professional whackers are at our non-hobby, mortgage paying jobs) and the rest of the time is covered by paid on call personnel. It works well for us and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

 

[devaE2]

Someone who treats EMS like a hobby and not a profession. It's just something they do in their spare time to entertain themselves, harming the rest who try to treat it as a profession and get EMS to be recognized as a true medical profession which will never happen as long as people are able to treat EMS as something cool they do when they leave the office.

I found the term, especially when used in conjunction with the question about it being a volunteer department a bit derogatory. Yes, I do think it's 'cool' to be an EMT as well as a volunteer fireman because I get to help the folks in my community. Those of us in the EMS services, at least in this part of the world, are treated with respect by our fellow citizens; in fact, most people around here would rather call the ambulance service than go to the clinic because they think the Dr. is a quack.

It took me 4 months of Saturdays to go through EMT training because I do have a day job so I find it hard to believe that anyone would go through the training/testing/clinicals just to entertain themselves.

Maybe some EMTs (both paid, paid call, and volunteer) are giving our profession a bad name - but that's true in any line of work.

Respectfully,

 

[Ridryder911]

I found the term, especially when used in conjunction with the question about it being a volunteer department a bit derogatory. Yes, I do think it's 'cool' to be an EMT as well as a volunteer fireman because I get to help the folks in my community. Those of us in the EMS services, at least in this part of the world, are treated with respect by our fellow citizens; in fact, most people around here would rather call the ambulance service than go to the clinic because they think the Dr. is a quack.

It took me 4 months of Saturdays to go through EMT training because I do have a day job so I find it hard to believe that anyone would go through the training/testing/clinicals just to entertain themselves.

Maybe some EMTs (both paid, paid call, and volunteer) are giving our profession a bad name - but that's true in any line of work.

Respectfully,

Do you volunteer to pick up trash, paint the playground, provide meals on wheels too? Or just only the ones with lights and sirens?

Let's remove the sirens, the patches and the titles. No l/s on P.O.V.'s, no badges no personal I.D.'s or decals allowed on the windshield, tags, etc...

Now, let's require some real education. Not a week end gathering for a few hours a night. I mean, real college level Micro, Psychology, College Algebra and then EMS subjects. You want to play in medicine, then suck it up and be in it. Paid or not paid, illnesses, injuries, and diseases are non-discriminatory; medicine is medicine. Again, it does not matter if your getting a check or not, the care is what matter. The care is based upon your knowledge and ability to provide that care. Now, with that saying ...just how proficient are you in delivering that care? Do you make more than 20+ calls a month, do you take more than 50-100 vital signs a month? Would you want to see a physician that only seen one patient a month or attended a week end course to keep up in medicine? Again, that is what your supposed to be delivering.



In regards to those communities that can't afford EMS, I call B.S. Do they have paid LEO, paid dispatchers, water works, a sanitation department? Yes? Then they can afford and EMS. It is all about priorities. Unfortunately, those that declare to be in EMS (even though they know very little about the system or health care) will attempt to place a band-aid on a arterial bleed. All in good faith, but for their own interest and not for the patients. There are areas that will always have to depend upon fine volunteer participants but that is unique and should never be the norm.


In regards to the OP of pay for on call. There is NO Federal law mandating on call pay (the amount or if has to be paid) or anything similar. EMS is a weird duck according to Federal Wage and Labor. It has its own rules and agenda.

R/r 911

 

[fortsmithman]

In regards to those communities that can't afford EMS, I call B.S. Do they have paid LEO, paid dispatchers, water works, a sanitation department?

In my town the town govt does not pay for police services The RCMP is contracted by the territorial govt. Our volly FD gets their equipment through federal grants. EMS is dispatched by the local hospital because it's free to the town. RCMP has their own dispatch. In order for my town to get full time ems their would have to be an increase in property taxes. About 98% of property tax payer wold in all probability veto ant tax increase for a paid EMS dept. They same tax payers would approve increase for roads water and sewer upgrades. Because the only time they care about EMS is when they need us. They would even vote to get the FD new equipment. As well in the NWT only 6 out of 25 communities have any form of EMS in the remaining 19 it's who ever has a truck or van to take the pt into the nursing stn. Only one out of the 6 is paid full time and that's our capital city Yellowknife. Yellowknife's EMS is a branch of the FD. The EMT's their arec also FF's. Their are no plain EMT's or paramedics they all have to be FF's as well.

 

[devaE2]

Do you volunteer to pick up trash, paint the playground, provide meals on wheels too? ....

Well, actually some of that yes. As do other folks around here. Volunteerism is what makes this part of the world survive.

Let's remove the sirens, the patches and the titles. No l/s on P.O.V.'s, no badges no personal I.D.'s or decals allowed on the windshield, tags, etc...

Not a problem. Actually, looking a certain sigs around here titles seem to be a big deal.

... Now, with that saying ...just how proficient are you in delivering that care? Do you make more than 20+ calls a month, do you take more than 50-100 vital signs a month?

Nope, don't have that kind of volume out here.

Would you want to see a physician that only seen one patient a month or attended a week end course to keep up in medicine? Again, that is what your supposed to be delivering.

Ah, I think most folks would rather see someone, anyone, who has better training and/or more knowledge of a subject than they do. As far as delivering medicine? Thought we were delivering pre-hospital care for the sick and injured; i.e., give 'em a chance to reach a higher level of care. After all, isn't that what the tiered care system is all about?

In regards to those communities that can't afford EMS, I call B.S. Do they have paid LEO, paid dispatchers, water works, a sanitation department? Yes? Then they can afford and EMS.

One can call BS until the cows come home. There ARE large parts of the country that don't have paid water works, sanitation, and LE is typically provided by the county.

It is all about priorities. Unfortunately, those that declare to be in EMS (even though they know very little about the system or health care) will attempt to place a band-aid on a arterial bleed. All in good faith, but for their own interest and not for the patients.

Right - there are thousands of volunteers doing EMS and all of them are doing it for their self interest. Guess the highly educated, dedicated professionals are just doing for the check. My bad.

There are areas that will always have to depend upon fine volunteer participants but that is unique and should never be the norm.


So sorry, but it is the norm in large parts of this country. The nearest hospital (and paid EMS) from my community is one and one half hours away. There are parts of this state where it's more than 4 hours and the nearest trauma center is several hundred miles distant. Are you saying that each and everyone of these little ranching communities should just suck it up and hire dedicated EMS when they don't have such basics as a grocery store within a hundred miles? One could suggest a trip west might broaden one's horizons.

R/r 911

So, having said that ...........