Naloxone Admin By EMT's

It's a recent skill here for both EMT's and EMR's simply because it's given out like candy to the public anyway and not having it wouldn't make sense
 
I think they should be able to use it... If its just me alone in the back of the ambulance and I'm 20 or 30 mins out I'm not gonna do it because I'm not going to put myself in danger if they become combative when they wake up.. But if the EMT feels comfortable and has some extra hands when they wake up I say go for it.. it can't do anything but help your patient
 
RobertAlfanoNJEMT said:
I think they should be able to use it... If its just me alone in the back of the ambulance and I'm 20 or 30 mins out I'm not gonna do it because I'm not going to put myself in danger if they become combative when they wake up.. But if the EMT feels comfortable and has some extra hands when they wake up I say go for it.. it can't do anything but help your patient
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So you're not going to provide a potentially life-saving intervention because you are afraid of being hit? Are you kidding me? Tie the guy to the stretcher. Or better yet give it to the dude on scene and wait for him to come around while your partner is still with you.

Maybe I havent seen enough narcan given, but every time they snap out of it, its not the schools definition of "they are basically the devil being woken up, and you better watch out."
 
RobertAlfanoNJEMT said:
I think they should be able to use it... If its just me alone in the back of the ambulance and I'm 20 or 30 mins out I'm not gonna do it because I'm not going to put myself in danger if they become combative when they wake up.. But if the EMT feels comfortable and has some extra hands when they wake up I say go for it.. it can't do anything but help your patient
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This is ridiculous.

How about "do your job"?
 
DEmedic said:
This is ridiculous.

How about "do your job"?
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Psssst! He's from Jersey!

I kid, I kid...;)

In all seriousness, that is the worst excuse ever, though I've no doubt many people have said it, and likely DONE IT.

Maybe, "learn how to do your job" and then "do your job."
 
RobertAlfanoNJEMT said:
I think they should be able to use it... If its just me alone in the back of the ambulance and I'm 20 or 30 mins out I'm not gonna do it because I'm not going to put myself in danger if they become combative when they wake up.. But if the EMT feels comfortable and has some extra hands when they wake up I say go for it.. it can't do anything but help your patient
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Ummm what? Thats like saying I'm not going to do CPR because I'm afraid I'm going to break the persons ribs. Like Chewy says break out the 4 points and if you feel like thats not enough break out the d rings and tie him to the gurney.

Every time I've seen narcan given the patient hasn't been fight to the death incredible hulk. Sure they'll be a bit rowdy, but thats because you just took them off their high.
 
Chewy20 said:
Maybe I havent seen enough narcan given, but every time they snap out of it, its not the schools definition of "they are basically the devil being woken up, and you better watch out."
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I may have had one person who was a bit violent, but this was a while ago and I can't honestly remember if he was violent, or disoriented, or totally fine and I'm just not remembering it correctly. That being said, I've seen it given or given it multiple times, and besides being a bit upset, I can't think of many people (if any) that have been violent when they're woken up. Moral of the story, I agree with you that the school's definition of the devil is pretty ridiculous.

That being said, I think that violence is possible, but only if it's administered incorrectly. For example, IV slam. Correctly administered, the concern over violence is pretty bogus IMHO.
 
RobertAlfanoNJEMT said:
I think they should be able to use it... If its just me alone in the back of the ambulance and I'm 20 or 30 mins out I'm not gonna do it because I'm not going to put myself in danger if they become combative when they wake up.. But if the EMT feels comfortable and has some extra hands when they wake up I say go for it.. it can't do anything but help your patient
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The goal of narcan isn't to wake the patient up.
 
The only "bad" reaction from a patient waking up that I've experienced is getting puked on. All part of the job. That's what laundry detergent is for.
 
I'm responsible for helping myself and keeping myself safe before my patient.. I'm just considering that delivering this drug can make the scene unsafe and if it's unsafe then no one is being helped! You can't resrain your patient either.. That's how you get charged for battery.. I never said I wouldn't use it I just said I would be considering what could happen if I did use it
 
RobertAlfanoNJEMT said:
I'm responsible for helping myself and keeping myself safe before my patient.. I'm just considering that delivering this drug can make the scene unsafe and if it's unsafe then no one is being helped! You can't resrain your patient either.. That's how you get charged for battery.. I never said I wouldn't use it I just said I would be considering what could happen if I did use it
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What the hell are you talking about?
 
OK.

What is narcan? Why do we give it/what do we titrate it to?

Why is restraining a patient "battery" if it's for you and your pt's safety?
 
Narcan is a drug administered when you believe a patient is in a drug overdose... In New Jersey we do not titrate it.. We are only given permission to give it intro nasally at a BLS level.. And I'm not saying I personally believe it is battery to restrain your patient but you may very well end up in court having to explain yourself if your patient believes you were abusing them and restraining them
 
Like someone said, narcan isn't given to 'wake someone up.' Opioid drugs decrease respiratory drive. Narcan 'reverses' the effects of opioids. Breathing pt = good pt. We do not withhold narcan because a pt may become combative. That is negligence. Negligence will get you into trouble long before restraining a substance abuser (or accidental OD) for the purpose of their and your safety.
 
I guess that's why always hear about cops getting charged for battery by restraining individuals during investigations....

Either you have the world's worst EMS restraints policy or you're so afraid of "my old partners buddy's next door neighbor once knew a Paramedic who got taken to court for this" you're afraid to actually do your job.
 
RobertAlfanoNJEMT said:
And I'm not saying I personally believe it is battery to restrain your patient but you may very well end up in court having to explain yourself if your patient believes you were abusing them and restraining them
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Whomever you heard that from, ignore them from now on. That is bollocks.

You talk about putting your safety first, yet don't advocate for the use of restraints? Restraints aren't abuse, we have the option of tying people manually and using chemical restraints. Both are ethical and legally defensible in the case of securing the patient's and your own safety.
 
RobertAlfanoNJEMT said:
I'm responsible for helping myself and keeping myself safe before my patient.. I'm just considering that delivering this drug can make the scene unsafe and if it's unsafe then no one is being helped! You can't resrain your patient either.. That's how you get charged for battery.. I never said I wouldn't use it I just said I would be considering what could happen if I did use it
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The ignorance is strong with this one. Teedubb explained it perfectly, if you withhold treatment from someone that needs it well thats textbook negligence.

Also restraints as battery? Thats a first for me. If you feel the pt is a danger to himself, you, or others then he/she needs to be restrained. Ive used everything from the 4 point "soft" restraints on the gurney to d rings and 4 points. Whatever you have to do to make your scene and patient safe. In my honest opinion I think you're afraid of all this legal crap you learn in school and its affecting the way you provide care. Withholding treatment in fear of a scene potentially becoming violent just absolutely blows my mind and is negligence.
 
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