mad dies after calling 911 10 times

[LonghornMedic]

So where do you draw the line?

What about the swift water team that wasn't able to rescue someone? I mean, it was only 6" of water, right?

I get your point. But the article say "up to two feet of snow." Traversing through two feet of snow down one city block isn't going to kill you like swift water. There's no excuse to at least call the fire department and see if they could help. They have equipment that is larger and higher than an ambulance. Maybe their engine could have made it down the street. Maybe four FF and two medics could have formulated a plan to get him down the street. Maybe the medics could have requested the streets department to see if there was a snow plow nearby. The point is, NONE of these approaches were attempted. They pulled up, said "tough :censored::censored::censored::censored:" and cleared the scene. Bad service and bad medicine.

 

[Shishkabob]

I get your point. But the article say "up to two feet of snow." Traversing through two feet of snow down one city block isn't going to kill you like swift water.

Wait, were you IN north Texas this February when we had that snow storm?

 

[JPINFV]

I damn well expect a patient to walk through a fire to reach me instead of me going through it to reach them. (Or gunfire, or a rapidly moving river, etc etc)



Since when did provider safety mean less than patient safety just because it's snow?

So if the patient could barely walk and was on the opposite bank of the river, you'd suggest that he walks to you?

If the patient was in a secure room (either fire or active shooter), you'd expect him to leave safety to come to you?

This wasn't a case of someone in a compromised location. It was a situation of a patient in a perfectly good shelter who needed medical attention. I will definitely accept that some of the crews couldn't reach him. However, to suggest that someone who could barely walk walk through, if we take the report of downed powerlines (which, to be fair, did anyone see any downed powerlines hanging from poles?), a few feet of snow that is in essence a mine field is crazy. In a situation like that, if it's too dangerous for the responders, it's definitely too dangerous for the patient. As far as "Since when did provider safety mean less than patient safety just because it's snow?" well, that really is situationally dependent. If you want to take it to the logical end, then there shouldn't be things like swift water response units. After all, if the patient got there, the patient can get out. However, this also ignores the fact that the responders should have more ability to handle dangers since they are, well, uninjured and unaffected by acute disease.

 

[JPINFV]

Maybe the medics could have requested the streets department to see if there was a snow plow nearby. The point is, NONE of these approaches were attempted. They pulled up, said "tough :censored::censored::censored::censored:" and cleared the scene. Bad service and bad medicine.

If I recall correctly, the first ambulance dispatched did request resources and was denied them.

 

[LonghornMedic]

Wait, were you IN north Texas this February when we had that snow storm?

Having lived in Montana, I can safely say two feet won't kill you. People living in PA are also accustomed to snow. North Texas, not so much.

 

[Shishkabob]

Having lived in Montana, I can safely say two feet won't kill you. People living in PA are also accustomed to snow. North Texas, not so much.

Having lived in Michigan for half my life, I can safely say 6" of snow can kill you.

 

[Aidey]

I get your point. But the article say "up to two feet of snow." Traversing through two feet of snow down one city block isn't going to kill you like swift water. There's no excuse to at least call the fire department and see if they could help. They have equipment that is larger and higher than an ambulance. Maybe their engine could have made it down the street. Maybe four FF and two medics could have formulated a plan to get him down the street. Maybe the medics could have requested the streets department to see if there was a snow plow nearby. The point is, NONE of these approaches were attempted. They pulled up, said "tough :censored::censored::censored::censored:" and cleared the scene. Bad service and bad medicine.

Do you know that none of that stuff was done? It is possible that it was, and we just haven't heard about it in the media.

 

[DrParasite]

having lived in Syracuse NY for a few years, I can tell you that if a city isn't prepared for a snow, it can cripple it. and even if a city IS prepared for snow, getting 2 feet of snow in 24 hours can cripple any town. And no, just saying "tell the road department to bring a plow" well, that might work for routine snow, but when everything is under 2 ft, it's not always that easy. I mean, ideally the best thing would be to assign a plow to EVERY ambulance to ensure a clear path but we all know that is cost prohibitive, unless you budget for it in advance.

That all being said, I think the family will win. They should. However, they should not win 10 million. the City/Pittsburg EMS failed to live up to their expectations and obligations, which resulted in a death. because of this the family should get money.

however, there are many mitigating circumstances. The blizzard snow storm, the cancelling of the ambulance by the family, and unusually high call volume are all factors that need to be taken into consideration, and should result in lower settlements. And because the family kept cancelling the ambulance (regardless of the reason), they need to accept part of the blame. Nature is a simple fact, that no one could anticipate, nor could you anticipate the call volume.

but I think the city will settle with the family before a judge make a decision.

 

[firecoins]

Do you know that none of that stuff was done? It is possible that it was, and we just haven't heard about it in the media.

It is certainly possible they did request additional assistance to get to the house. Than the question is how come they didn't get it.

It has been suggested in the media that the ambulance crew asked the patient to walk to the ambulance in the snow. This begs the question how come the crew didn't at least walk to the patient and assess the patient.

 

[Shishkabob]

That all being said, I think the family will win. They should. However, they should not win 10 million. the City/Pittsburg EMS failed to live up to their expectations and obligations, which resulted in a death. because of this the family should get money.

Again, that sets a HORRIBLE precedent that will screw every single fire, ems, and police agency in America.

 

[jjesusfreak01]

How is it abandonment if they never made contact with the patient that was originally called for? IIRC to be considered abandonment you actually have to make contact with the patient.

If you are dispatched, choose to transport another patient, and don't call for another unit to go to the original call, then the people with the patient probably aren't going to call for help again until they are sure you aren't coming. You would be unnecessarily delaying the care of the original patient, possibly resulting in their harm or death.

This isn't a question of triaging...I agree that triaging is necessary and may result in you having to redirect resources, but when resources are not the issue there are few excuses when care is delayed.

 

[usalsfyre]

I have a sneaking suspicion they might have never known they WEREN'T at the original call. If you respond to an address, and you are met by someone c/o a similar complaint, would you not assume that is the caller?

 

[EMDispatch]

however, there are many mitigating circumstances. The blizzard snow storm, the cancelling of the ambulance by the family, and unusually high call volume are all factors that need to be taken into consideration, and should result in lower settlements. And because the family kept cancelling the ambulance (regardless of the reason), they need to accept part of the blame.

Canceling the ambulance can play a huge factor. If a crew sent a request for a plow, when they were canceled, it's likely that a plow would have been canceled too.

Overall I view it as more of a failure of ICS and emergency management activities. Communication between agencies seems to have failed in what was an obvious weather emergency situation.

 

[Foxbat]

PITTSBURGH -- An arbitrator has ordered reinstatement for a Pittsburgh paramedic fired after a snowbound Hazelwood man died during a 30-hour wait for an ambulance last winter.
...
Josie Dimon was a medic crew chief during a blizzard in February 2010. She was fired after recordings revealed her saying that a man suffering from abdominal pain should walk to an ambulance that couldn't reach his home in the snow.

The rest of the story

 

[firetender]

thanks for the update!