Lpn vs medic school

[Katy]

LPNs on the other hand cant work as CNAs.

They actually can, as they recieve CNA training and far more in their education. Many of them work as CNA's while in school.

 

[Akulahawk]

An RN working on an ambulance is going to be doing so in one of 3 roles: Critical Care Transport, Prehospital RN (PHRN), or as an EMT or Paramedic who just happens to be an RN.

CCT - RN is usually has a 3-5 year ED/ICU prerequisite. PHRN may simply require RN + an orientation to the local EMS system and some internship time.

If you're looking to become an RN, I'd suggest going to RN school. If you're looking to get some field experience, become an EMT, do some work with that, and go to RN school. This way you're not completely lost when it comes time to meet & greet your patients. If you're looking to become a Paramedic, go to Paramedic school... and along the way, you'll do EMT school too...

 

[jjesusfreak01]

They actually can, as they recieve CNA training and far more in their education. Many of them work as CNA's while in school.

I know all the nursing schools around my area have CNA as a pre-req, so just about all of the LPNs and RNs had the cert for at least a while. You can also challenge the CNA exam in NC (with no training whatsoever).

 

[Katy]

I know all the nursing schools around my area have CNA as a pre-req, so just about all of the LPNs and RNs had the cert for at least a while. You can also challenge the CNA exam in NC (with no training whatsoever).

Usually either it is a pre-req or they can challenge it after the first semester or something, depends on your area. And I wouldn't advise that for one minute. Unless someone is in nursing school or is a nurse, I don't think they should challenge the exam.

 

[usalsfyre]

Off topic question, why in the blazes do we as a profession support the PHRN certification? Do you see RNs jumping to support an In-Hospital Paramedic certification?

Please understand this is not sniping at RNs, it's simply the thought we should be protecting our area of practice.

 

[Katy]

Off topic question, why in the blazes do we as a profession support the PHRN certification? Do you see RNs jumping to support an In-Hospital Paramedic certification?

Please understand this is not sniping at RNs, it's simply the thought we should be protecting our area of practice.

In nursing school students learn little about a lot, they have a very generalized education on human anatomy and physiology, as well as interventions and specialities. Now, when one graduates from nursing school, he or she can choose a speciality that holds interest to them, and with a very generalized education it would be fairly easy or not too difficult to adapt to that specific environment.
Now, when one enters a Paramedic program, they are already setting themselves up to work in a specialized field, pre-hospital emergency care. Now, when one graduates that program, there main knowledge revolves around cardiology, airway, and emergency interventions. It is very difficult for one who has gone to school for such a specialized field to adapt to a whole different concept of thinking. Not saying it can't be done, but in relation RN's get far more generalized education making them more adaptable to field specialization, while Paramedics essentially graduate school with an already set speciality. Or at least, thats how I view it. ^_^

 

[JPINFV]

Off topic question, why in the blazes do we as a profession support the PHRN certification? Do you see RNs jumping to support an In-Hospital Paramedic certification?

Please understand this is not sniping at RNs, it's simply the thought we should be protecting our area of practice.

Probably for the same reasons the EMS boards and oversight agencies are staffed with RNs instead of paramedics.

 

[Aerin-Sol]

Usually either it is a pre-req or they can challenge it after the first semester or something, depends on your area. And I wouldn't advise that for one minute. Unless someone is in nursing school or is a nurse, I don't think they should challenge the exam.

Why shouldn't someone challenge an exam? I looked through a CNA textbook and it seems that the position only requires certification for legal purposes. There's nothing in there that necessitates instruction.

 

[Katy]

Why shouldn't someone challenge an exam? I looked through a CNA textbook and it seems that the position only requires certification for legal purposes. There's nothing in there that necessitates instruction.

You looked through the it, yet you didn't actually read the text nor have you sit in a classroom with an instructor, it needs instruction. Your average Joe isn't going to know how to properly give foley care, range of motion, and proper infection prevention among many other things. -_- Generally, for patient safety I would never challenge an exam, just like I don't believe in bridge courses. Anyone could look through an EMT book and learn the process and duties of the profession, but do you believe they do not need to be instructed ?

 

[JPINFV]

Anyone could look through an EMT book and learn the process and duties of the profession, but do you believe they do not need to be instructed ?

Depends on the topic. Learning the material is more important than how it's learned. Lecture isn't the only way to impart knowledge.

 

[jjesusfreak01]

Why shouldn't someone challenge an exam? I looked through a CNA textbook and it seems that the position only requires certification for legal purposes. There's nothing in there that necessitates instruction.

Agree here too. The actual scope of practice of a CNA in NC is very limited and consists of primarily personal non-medical care for the patients. There's not really anything that couldn't be taught in about 5 hours max of hands on training. Its hardly enough to warrant the 100 hour course they have here.

http://www.ncbon.com/content.aspx?id=826

 

[Katy]

Depends on the topic. Learning the material is more important than how it's learned. Lecture isn't the only way to impart knowledge.

Agreed, I was simply using the same logic with a different profession. And this is true, which is why CNA training requires clinical hours.

 

[usalsfyre]

In nursing school students learn little about a lot, they have a very generalized education on human anatomy and physiology, as well as interventions and specialities. Now, when one graduates from nursing school, he or she can choose a speciality that holds interest to them, and with a very generalized education it would be fairly easy or not too difficult to adapt to that specific environment.
Now, when one enters a Paramedic program, they are already setting themselves up to work in a specialized field, pre-hospital emergency care. Now, when one graduates that program, there main knowledge revolves around cardiology, airway, and emergency interventions. It is very difficult for one who has gone to school for such a specialized field to adapt to a whole different concept of thinking. Not saying it can't be done, but in relation RN's get far more generalized education making them more adaptable to field specialization, while Paramedics essentially graduate school with an already set speciality. Or at least, thats how I view it. ^_^

I'm still not sure how this in any way justifies the PHRN credential.

 

[Katy]

I'm still not sure how this in any way justifies the PHRN credential.

Then I guess I don't understand your question, like any other certification and credential, it accounts for a specialized field of nursing.

 

[JPINFV]

Bridge programs still, in general, require clinical hours. California, for example, allows other health professions to challenge paramedic provided they show equivalent education and have completed 40 prehospital ALS patient contacts.

http://www.emsa.ca.gov/paramedic/files/FrequentlyAskedQuestions.pdf [question 12]

 

[usalsfyre]

What your saying is that RNs should be allowed to fill a role where a provider already exist that is educated in that specialty.

So should we start using RNs to do PT or shoot Xrays next? Surely we could just give them some training and make up a credential....

 

[usalsfyre]

Bridge programs still, in general, require clinical hours. California, for example, allows other health professions to challenge paramedic provided they show equivalent education and have completed 40 prehospital ALS patient contacts.

http://www.emsa.ca.gov/paramedic/files/FrequentlyAskedQuestions.pdf [question 12]

Which, let's face it is as complete and utter bushwa as most EMS educational programs.

 

[Katy]

What your saying is that RNs should be allowed to fill a role where a provider already exist that is educated in that specialty.

So should we start using RNs to do PT or shoot Xrays next? Surely we could just give them some training and make up a credential....

I don't think anyone here or the nurses with the certification are attempting to "fill the role" of the Medic. Both the Medic and the Nurse bring a different aspect of health into the picture, PHRN is giving the nurse more training to function in a pre-hospital environment, not replace a Paramedic. Usually, these nurses have ER and ICU experience as well, thought that was worth mentioning.

 

[joeshmoe]

Happy......In my state anyway, LPN's cannot retain their CNA or work as a CNA once they get their LPN license. As an LPN student, yes, but the moment they get their license they can no longer work as a CNA. I assume the worry is that they will exceed their scope of practice as a CNA, but Im not totally sure what the reason is. Where I worked some good CNAs had to quit their job as soon as they passed their LPN exam. Most people would rather work as an LPN than a CNA obviously, but since LPN jobs are more scarce than CNA jobs, it sucks for them they cant fall back on their CNA if they cant find work as an LPN.

 

[Katy]

Happy......In my state anyway, LPN's cannot retain their CNA or work as a CNA once they get their LPN license. As an LPN student, yes, but the moment they get their license they can no longer work as a CNA. I assume the worry is that they will exceed their scope of practice as a CNA, but Im not totally sure what the reason is. Where I worked some good CNAs had to quit their job as soon as they passed their LPN exam. Most people would rather work as an LPN than a CNA obviously, but since LPN jobs are more scarce than CNA jobs, it sucks for them they cant fall back on their CNA if they cant find work as an LPN.

Interesting. What I don't understand is why these LPN's can't practice as a CNA if they can't find a LPN job, it doesn't make them any less of a CNA, it makes them a better one. But I guess thats just the way it is.