Limited use of Lights and sirens

[VentMedic]

Pa. Ambulance Group Decides Quiet is Way to Go

Exeter association says crews no longer will activate sirens, emergency lights on most calls

Posted: Monday, March 2, 2009
Reading Eagle (Pennsylvania)

http://www.emsresponder.com/article/article.jsp?id=9074&siteSection=1

Exeter Ambulance Association announced last week that its crews no longer will activate sirens and emergency lights on most calls.

Officials cited studies and updated state guidelines as the reasoning for the policy change.

"Statistics show using lights and sirens in many instances doesn't get a crew to a scene of an emergency any faster," said Rich Bowers, executive director of Exeter Ambulance, which operates five ambulances and three wheelchair vans.

While no major changes in protocol have been made, the state has been trying to discourage the unnecessary use of sirens and lights, Schmider said.

In 2007, he said, an average of one crash per day in the state involved an ambulance.

"We've really been trying educate the crews to think twice before using them because it increased your risk of having some kind of event," Schmider said.

http://www.emsresponder.com/article/article.jsp?id=9074&siteSection=1

 

[medic417]

Guess I better turn in my resignation because only reason I'm in EMS is to go fast with bright lights and lots of noise.

Sadly though I would expect many would not stay or even enter EMS if L&S basically go the way of the dino.

 

[MMiz]

If you read the article you'll find that they will still use lights and sirens to "emergency" calls and when transporting critical patients. Isn't that how most folks are dispatched and transport already?

 

[Aidey]

One crash per day? That is just plain old crappy driving, with or without the use of L&S.

 

[karaya]

I'm surprised they ever used lights and siren. Their 911 service area is a tiny borough and a small town with a combined population of only 26,812!

 

[medic417]

If you read the article you'll find that they will still use lights and sirens to "emergency" calls and when transporting critical patients. Isn't that how most folks are dispatched and transport already?

Actually we go to the hospital w/o L&S the majority of our patients, even emergent ones because you can't do quality care bouncing around at high rates of speed. Plus even on a long transport your only minutes shorter exceeding the speed limit anyway. And if your 5 minutes to a hospital w/o L&S your still 4 1/2 minutes away with them. So is the extra danger worth the risk?

 

[medic417]

I'm surprised they ever used lights and siren. Their 911 service area is a tiny borough and a small town with a combined population of only 26,812!

WOW they live in a huge city. Theres not half that many people in the 6000 square miles in my service area.

 

[MMiz]

Actually we go to the hospital w/o L&S the majority of our patients, even emergent ones because you can't do quality care bouncing around at high rates of speed. Plus even on a long transport your only minutes shorter exceeding the speed limit anyway. And if your 5 minutes to a hospital w/o L&S your still 4 1/2 minutes away with them. So is the extra danger worth the risk?

That's what I'm saying. I find it common to have a RLS response if dispatched to a priority call, but I rarely see RLS transports.

 

[karaya]

WOW they live in a huge city. Theres not half that many people in the 6000 square miles in my service area.

Yeah, but for where this service is located, 26,812 is small. From the looks of their service area map, it appears they only cover a few square miles.

 

[VentMedic]

If you read the article you'll find that they will still use lights and sirens to "emergency" calls and when transporting critical patients. Isn't that how most folks are dispatched and transport already?

No. In many areas most 911 calls get the full L&S treatment as well as several vehicles responding. This is particularly true in fire based services.

Example:
Redundant Response Under Fire in Florida
http://emsresponder.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=7458

This system has a least 3 response vehicles, each running L&S, responding to everything. Unfortunately there are many systems like this in many states, counties and cities. Some even try to co-exist in the same city only to collide with each other while running L&S.

 

[jrm818]

(at least part) of PA has been like this for a while. The western part of the state uses a county-level priority based dispatch, with many calls not getting L&S response. It has been like this for a while. L&S to the hospital is extremely rare....maybe 1/20 at the most based on listening to my service and every other service in the county on the radio.

I don't know anything about Exeter...but i'd be suprised if they didn't already restrict use of L&S.

The article really doesn't make it clear what is changing. Did this service use L&S 100% of the time before the change?

 

[daedalus]

If you read the article you'll find that they will still use lights and sirens to "emergency" calls and when transporting critical patients. Isn't that how most folks are dispatched and transport already?

Yes.
I laugh when I read some of these because in my home community, most calls are already a "Medical NO CODE" (Medical call, no code response). In my community, only potentially life threatening calls are dispatched emergency, such as chocking and arrest, chest pain, difficulty breathing, etc.

Than, I remember where I work. In LA county, the stupi.....silly fire paramedics transport everything code three, even wrist pain or musculoskeletal injuries in healthy people.

 

[VentMedic]

Yes.

Than, I remember where I work. In LA county, the stupi.....silly fire paramedics transport everything code three, even wrist pain or musculoskeletal injuries in healthy people.

Not only do the fire paramedics do this but some private ambulance companies do as well to "keep a schedule". But it is not just LA. Many private ambulance companies across the country allow and often encourage running the routines L&S to get more calls done in a timely manner.

 

[Sasha]

No. In many areas most 911 calls get the full L&S treatment as well as several vehicles responding. This is particularly true in fire based services.

Example:
Redundant Response Under Fire in Florida
http://emsresponder.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=7458

This system has a least 3 response vehicles, each running L&S, responding to everything. Unfortunately there are many systems like this in many states, counties and cities. Some even try to co-exist in the same city only to collide with each other while running L&S.

Where I do clinicals at, you get the rescue(ambulance) and the engine, sometimes the tower!

Most of the time it's unneeded and there's a lot of folks standing around doing nothing waiting for the LT to tell them they can go back to the station and finish their lunch/nap/whatever. Useful on a code, though!

 

[MMiz]

Not only do the fire paramedics do this but some private ambulance companies do as well to "keep a schedule". But it is not just LA. Many private ambulance companies across the country allow and often encourage running the routines L&S to get more calls done in a timely manner.

I did my clinicals with AMR in Michigan. We ran RLS to every call, urgent or not, due to always being late.

Working for another private service in the same county years later, we never ran RLS due to tight scheduling or running behind.

 

[Jon]

I find the article confusing. The company does lots of non-emergency interfacility work to begin with. They also don't say if they aren't going to be RESPONDING priority, or if they aren't going to be TRANSPORTING priority.


I'll ask around and have some more info later.

One crash per day? That is just plain old crappy driving, with or without the use of L&S.

That is the grand average of EMS-involved MVA's in the state... everything from my wrecking an ambulance to avoid striking a motorcylcist who lost control in front of me (I had no place to go but off road, into a tree. Motorcyclist lived... and would not have had I hit him with a big ol' Type III Horton).

That also includes the fender-bender another in-county squad had the last snowstorm... they lost it on black ice and tapped a tree - minor damage, but reported.

That ALSO includes the truck from my county that had a suicidal deer jump out in front of them on the highway last week.

PA's a huge state... LOTS and LOTS of ambulances. I can list these three from the last 6 months, off the top of my head.

I'm surprised they ever used lights and siren. Their 911 service area is a tiny borough and a small town with a combined population of only 26,812!

Yep. What the article doesn't say is that they do a lot of routines. And, at least sometimes, they have their 911 truck tied up with routines. The local fire Co. also responds as a BLS first responder if they aren't immediatly availible. They respond as volunteers, in a QRS/utility vehicle - NO, they don't bring the engine on every EMS run.

That's what I'm saying. I find it common to have a RLS response if dispatched to a priority call, but I rarely see RLS transports.

That's how we run in my area. Almost every dispatch gets an emergent response, but very, very few get emergent transports.

 

[DR_KSIDE]

Anyone notice that most of these L&S articles deal with EMS more than Fire or Law Enforcement? I would bet that if the people who wrote these would start attacking the other two emergency fields there would be a great uproar.

Just my opinion.

 

[VentMedic]

Anyone notice that most of these L&S articles deal with EMS more than Fire or Law Enforcement? I would bet that if the people who wrote these would start attacking the other two emergency fields there would be a great uproar.

Just my opinion.

PDs do have very strict rules for running L&S fortunately or it would be one noisy mess if they ran L&S to ALL of their calls.

The other article I posted involved the FD.
Redundant Response Under Fire in Florida

It wanted answers why 3 vehicles, 2 of which are FD, respond L&S to every call regardless how minor.

 

[AJ Hidell]

Than, I remember where I work. In LA county, the stupi.....silly fire paramedics transport everything code three, even wrist pain or musculoskeletal injuries in healthy people.

Yep. And it is more common than we like to admit. Even those who do it refuse to admit it. There are a whole lot of "precautionary code 3" transports going on out there. Most of them are probably just the medic or EMT's incompetence and discomfort with a patient that they don't know how to diagnose or treat. They're in a hurry to get rid of it. A great many are just looking for an excuse to run hot, and will jump on any chance to do so. If you stopped those code 3 transports, as well as stopping the rolling codes, the number remaining would be microscopic.

 

[jrm818]

I think microscopic may be pushing it a bit much. There are a number of conditions which legitimately deserve to go L&S to the hospital...CVA, MI, AAA, major traumas, bad bleeds (I'm thinking of the GI variety..but anywhere internal really) etc.