Law Enforcement's High Standards: Why no polygraph or psychological testing for EMS?

[Ridryder911]

I have worked as a Police Medic and was required the B.S. of battery of testing (I believe it was 60 all together, including grip testing) and after polygraph crap and the bologna of being called a communistic, dog hating, wife beater, homosexual (I had reactions of those, so it was presumed...) My background check declared that it I deserved another polygraph test (Arid x-tra dry on the finger tips) could not get a successful reading they acknowledged to me that the test was really worthless.

If one ever studies what the "norm" is based upon on the Minnesota or California Psychological testing for law enforcement, one would be surprised at one time was based upon fifth year convicts. Yeah, that is we base our "norms" at?

So one jumps through the hoops and rolls over to get a public servant job.. whooop eee! Still amazing though, to still see Uncles that are brass of new recruits and the "family tradition" carries on. I know of one the large metro FD admits that they threw out the top scores and bottom scores and selected only those in the middle? I actually knew Paramedics that purposely missed test questions on their second try, because they scored too high the first time. Yup, that is who I want saving me! Of course the old analogy, they hire below the neck is so true.

I will have to admit, many of the law enforcement requires formal education. Here's an idea. Require a formal education before applying. Demonstrate your true dedication to the profession and academically.

I don't disregard screening, in fact initial screening at the beginning of EMT school. Can they read >12 th grade level, do they WANT to be an EMT? Require A/P I, II, medical terminology, before entry to the Basic level. Then we will a decrease of wannabes and those that want to enter EMS.

 

[MMiz]

I'm not disagreeing with the validity of polygraph tests. I'm wondering why working as a police officer requires a true fitness test, polygraph exam, and psychological exam, while most EMT positions do not.

 

[Aidey]

I was told by a police officer friend that the prevailing theory hes heard is that the polygraph is more to assess how the potential officer deals with pressure rather than really judge how truthful they are.

As for the psychological testing, I don't think it's as necessary in medicine. I'm not against some general testing to rule out glaring psychological problems, but I don't think it's as big of a deal if a medical provider has a mental health history. The biggest difference IMO is that police are basically required to judge people in their job, and an employer needs to know that they will be able to do that. There is also the gun factor as someone pointed out.

Physical agility wise, we aren't required to chase people, and we shouldn't be wrestling people, 2 things police do have to be able to do.

Yes, general physical fitness is good, but when it comes down to it, all we really need to be able to do is lift safely, which requires strength, but not much endurance. A police officer needs both.

 

[Shishkabob]

already said why.

It would be illegal for a non govt based EMS agency to even suggest a polygraph to an employee.

It will take a lot to get that legislation changed, even if just for EMS.

 

[akflightmedic]

Actually, a lot of departments now utilize voice stress analysis testing in lieu of polys...

 

[VentMedic]

Many years ago, private ambulance services ran polygraph tests on their employees to get bonded and they did carry large amounts of money from cash collections.

As far as background checks, I do believe they are necessary even if no polygraph is done. Nurses in California that were licensed several years ago before the background checks are now having to get finger printed for this license renewal since they found some were renewing their licenses from prison.

I don't know of any other healthcare profession that doesn't require a background check consistently except for EMS.

Infancy of our profession: Let's face it, we are fairly new. It has only been, what, since the 60's or 70's that we've become a real service?

At 40 plus years EMS is a lot older than many professions who have achieved higher standards and recognition by the insurances in half that time. Nursing also didn't move from their diplomas to the degree until almost 10 - 15 years after EMS became established. Florida has several schools offering the two year degree in EMS during the early 70s while nursing still had their diploma schools and had not completely made the change over.

The example I use to demonstrate how states can have standards that differ from the national standard is in respiratory therapy: I can practice in Indiana, but I can not practice in Michigan or Ohio because I lack an associates in respiratory therapy (I was trained by the military). EMS could do exactly the same thing if we chose to push for it, rather than simply remaining the redheaded stepchild of the fire service.

That was changed in 2002. The national standard is a two year degree to test for what is now the CRT (Certified Respiratory Therapist) the entry level for RT which is now a minimum of a two year degree. You had a 5 year period to upgrade and that was even extended for a period to get some through an extra semester of college.

To get your RT credential now, a minimum of a two year degree is required. I believe all states now recognize the NBRC exams and credentials even in the two states (Hawaii and Alaska) that are still working on licensure.

www.nbrc.org

A few states allow grandfathering of their "techs" but in some places they are now pushing the tank cart rather then working with patients. If IN is still one of those states it won't be long before their "techs" vanish. Florida also grandfathered a few "techs" in the mid 80s when it first got licensure but since has promoted the two year degree as the standard for working in the ICUs and separated the state licenses by the NBRC credentials.

Indiana probably grandfathered you a few years ago based on your military experience. The NBRC and some States have also been making an effort to close that loop hole since some military nurses were applying for RT licenses and did not meet the NBRC requirements. That loophole is now pretty much closed in most states and with the educational standards for credentialing implimented which states a degree in RT or CP required, it should stay closed.

Get prepared if you want to do RT again in the future. There is now a large percentage that hold 4 year degrees and that is the next move. Indiana is one of the states helping make the push since they have these degree programs already in place. There is already legislation waiting to be passed for expanded practice out of hospital areas such as clinics, homecare and consulting for those possessing higher education than just a mere Associates degree.

Essentially RT has recognized its problem areas for inconsistency and has make legislative adjustments to fix those inconsistencies. EMS definitely should exam professions that have done this as well as the way educational requirements were impliments and the grandfathering process.

 

[el Murpharino]

A polygraph is not even required for many of the above top secret clearances in the military.

I had to undergo polygraph testing for my Top Secret clearance, but the polygraph was to see if I know/associate with any foreign nationals or dignitaries. It wasn't a lifestyle polygraph. But then again, with the background check they do for those, they would know by the time they got to a polygraph whether or not you were an acceptable candidate.

 

[usafmedic45]

I had to undergo polygraph testing for my Top Secret clearance, but the polygraph was to see if I know/associate with any foreign nationals or dignitaries.

They didn't do that for me and I was going to be associating with people exactly like that.

Actually, a lot of departments now utilize voice stress analysis testing in lieu of polys...

Which is just as unreliable....

That was changed in 2002.

Right, but I was referring to the fact that I can still get a license because I came in before the fact.

I'm not disagreeing with the validity of polygraph tests. I'm wondering why working as a police officer requires a true fitness test, polygraph exam, and psychological exam, while most EMT positions do not.

Fitness test : This one I will give you, although I posit this question: How often do you really have to run in EMS? When was the last time you chased down a patient? Fitness tests- even in the fire and police services- have a horrible sensitivity for even serious cardiac issues. Personnel safety is the only argument for fitness test and even the standard firefighter fitness test has serious limitations towards that end.
Polygraph: what part of "no benefit, poor specificity, excessive sensitivity" doesn't negate that being a good idea? Just because LE and some FDs do it doesn't make it a good idea.
Psych exam: same as with the polygraph.

Care to point out some benefits of the approach you favor other than driving away those who think such hoops are simply pointless and degrading? These are the very people we need in the field: the bright, the intelligent, the progressive. You will loose far more of those than you will weed out sociopaths, criminals, etc. Like I said before, we are a medical profession and need to act and be treated as such regardless of whether you and a subset of the profession think we should be treated like erstwhile wannabe cops and firefighters.

Get prepared if you want to do RT again in the future. There is now a large percentage that hold 4 year degrees and that is the next move. Indiana is one of the states helping make the push since they have these degree programs already in place. There is already legislation waiting to be passed for expanded practice out of hospital areas such as clinics, homecare and consulting for those possessing higher education than just a mere Associates degree.

Right, but that is no interest to me since I'm only working as an RT because it's a job that I'm good at and it pays well. Personally I don't hold a lot of desire to continue handing out albuterol for a living and never intended on being an RT to begin with (paperwork screwup in the military). Within the next couple of years I will be finishing my bachelors and going on to graduate school, although I will have my RRT by then (as approved by the NBRC through educational equivalency). At that point, whether I practice as an RT or not is of little interest to me although I will continue to maintain my license and credential.