LA County EMT arrested after being accused by LAPD Sergeant of assaulting patient

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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Yeah... They can and will.
Most cops don't know a think about EMS; and they don't want to know. they know law enforcement stuff. Even those that are or were EMTs or paramedics know that their job is to law enforcement stuff, not patient care. One of my FD's volunteers works full time as a city police officer, and part time as a paramedic in another county; but when the Ambulance shows up, he does his job as a LEO, and lets EMS do their job.

I've had very few conflicts with officers on scene; the VAST majority of the time, if i need help, they will do exactly what I say, because it's in the patient's best interest. Now if there is a law enforcement matter, that's their domain; I don't tell them how to enforce laws, and they don't tell me how to treat my patient.

The Sgt in this example appears to have been wrong on multiple factors. She made an accusation that wasn't supported by the facts, she directed her subordinates to falsely imprison the EMT, she unnecessarily escalated the situation, and she failed to do her job, by working to prevent the patient from jumping out of a moving ambulance. I hope she and the department get sued, and have to pay millions.
 

Tigger

Dodges Pucks
Community Leader
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Got news for you: there are times where LE CAN and WILL tell you what to do, same as FD.

You seem to have the ParaGod syndrome. Everything you do, WILL come back and bite you. Not a good way to do things. But...some EMTs just have to learn the hard way
What is the law enforcement equivalent of paragod?

You can jump up and down and puff your chest out about how law enforcement has the final say and it only serves to make you look more foolish. There are certainly times when the attending EMS provider has final say in patient care and disposition and that is indisputable. Do I work hard to make sure that my decisions are in line with those of law enforcement? You bet. But if law enforcement activity is going to pose a detriment to patient care, that's where the line is. Being a cop does not give you the right to detract from someone's care.

Generally, we aren't going to delay transport for investigative work, we aren't going to a hospital that's inappropriate for the patient's condition because that's what the officer wants, and we certainly are not going to let non-medically trained LEOs make poor medical decisions on the patient's behalf, custody status notwithstanding.

Not to mention, the majority of my interactions start with a call for them. We fix each other's problems and the department's awesome relationship with the multitude of law agencies here is the result of that.
 

StCEMT

Forum Deputy Chief
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BS flag thrown.

you have a violent patient, or combative OD, and you just tell the PD to **** right off? I don't buy it, not for a second. In fact, I've love to hear from your agency leadership that they would approve of you telling a cop to **** off or what their thoughts on your employment status would be if you did that.

You want to cancel them before they get there, tell them they aren't needed, sure, but if they are there and you tell them to **** off, I am pretty sure your boss will want to have a chat with you about your behavior.

I'm pretty sure if you were in the situation that the mccormick EMT, and you have 5 cops surrounding you (one aiming a taser at you), with the Sgt wanting you to be arrested for assault, you'll end up in handcuffs one way or another.
If someone is a hindrance and not a help, yes, I have and would tell them to leave.

These types of things don't happen because I've spent years building my bridges where I work. But at the end of the day I still draw lines and am not bashful about holding to them. Like I said, my name is the one liable for that patient and I'm not letting someone else put me in a position for a problem to arise. I've made mistakes and I'll own them every time, but they won't be due to someone else. At the end of the day, you can think what you want. Doesn't matter to me, it's all a bunch of what ifs anyway and means next to nothing to anyone.
 

johnrsemt

Forum Deputy Chief
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I have never had an officer try to tell me how to do my job, and I have had quite a few ride in with me due to a patient being under arrest. I have even had a K-9 ride in with me (Patient was the politest, most well behaved person I ever saw after the dog got in the truck).
I have had quite a few prison guards try to tell me how to treat my patients/their prisoners.
 

Traumaholic

Forum Ride Along
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Well does PD know what we have to do sometimes in extreme conditions? Granted LA county is a different place from where I am but I have never been question or criticized for securing a patient if they pose a threat to themselves. IE: SI or H.I
 
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