LA County EMT arrested after being accused by LAPD Sergeant of assaulting patient

OP
Amberlamps916
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Is McCormick getting the AMR combative patient training?
 
OP
Amberlamps916
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AMR isn’t even getting the combative patient training.
Santa Barbara just did, and so did many other divisions. It's something they implemented after the Portland stabbing. I'm not sure why everybody isn't doing it at the same time.
 

StCEMT

Forum Deputy Chief
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I'm glad our cops aren't complete twats. Dare any of them to come in my truck and tell me how to run my ****.
 

CALEMT

The Other Guy/ Paramaybe?
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Dare any of them to come in my truck and tell me how to run my ****.
Don't know how it is for you out east, but at the end of the day the the department having jurisdiction over the scene is the law enforcement agency.
 

RedBlanketRunner

Opheophagus Hannah Cuddler
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Salient: Patient unstrapped herself. Pulled the patient back onto the gurney. (Officer) Called for back up.
As described in the video, he did what any functional medic would do. Whole lot of blanks need to be filled in but the immediate one I'm wondering about is why the officer didn't move to assist him.

But don't start a video with the medic stating "I feared for my life". That's slanting/predisposing the incident for the audience. Melodrama, not factual objective new reporting.

But as lead for a few years on a unit, I consider actions taken by an attendant in the back of the ambulance that are within the scope of the level of training in regards to restraint of the patient to be appropriate barring gross negligence. The back of a unit is a dangerous place that you DO NOT WANT to turn into a combat zone. IE keeping a patient in place on the gurney is within scope of basic patient transport of any EMT.
 
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StCEMT

Forum Deputy Chief
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Don't know how it is for you out east, but at the end of the day the the department having jurisdiction over the scene is the law enforcement agency.
The dynamic is probably different since we aren't a huge city, especially compared to LA. We know and recognize most FD/PD/EMS at the very least and often have a lot of friends throughout all the stations and preceincts. That is true across all services. Since we all work with the same people so much, we're good about staying in our respective lanes and working as a team because a lot of us of friends outside of work.

As far as my rules go, the highest credentialed provider calls the shots for any person deemed a patient. The only person that can mess with my call is a physician who can prove to me that they're a doc. Otherwise, I have the final say.

My rules when stuff overlaps like a fire with occupants, tech rescue, medical calls, or police stand by.

Authority for management of the emergency scene, exclusive of medical control over the patient, will rest with the appropriate on scene public safety officials (i.e.police, fire, rescue).

So when it comes to a medical call where I don't need PD? I can and will tell them to **** right off.
 

CCCSD

Forum Asst. Chief
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So you actually tell them to “**** right off”. Really?
Hows that working for you.
 

RedBlanketRunner

Opheophagus Hannah Cuddler
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Why do I detect the rank stench of the same old same old cop vs FD/EMS?
 

BobBarker

Forum Lieutenant
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Salient: Patient unstrapped herself. Pulled the patient back onto the gurney. (Officer) Called for back up.
As described in the video, he did what any functional medic would do. Whole lot of blanks need to be filled in but the immediate one I'm wondering about is why the officer didn't move to assist him.

But don't start a video with the medic stating "I feared for my life". That's slanting/predisposing the incident for the audience. Melodrama, not factual objective new reporting.

But as lead for a few years on a unit, I consider actions taken by an attendant in the back of the ambulance that are within the scope of the level of training in regards to restraint of the patient to be appropriate barring gross negligence. The back of a unit is a dangerous place that you DO NOT WANT to turn into a combat zone. IE keeping a patient in place on the gurney is within scope of basic patient transport of any EMT.
Of course his lawyer is going to tell him to be a little more exciting to create a bigger case however at the very least this guy's perception of law enforcement, who he works with almost daily, will be changed. Imagine having 5 police officers surrounding you with their taser(s) out and telling you to get the **** on the ground or else in the middle of a medical emergency, getting cuffed, sent to jail and losing one of your jobs. My gut is he gets $50k and LAPD admits no wrongdoing.
 

StCEMT

Forum Deputy Chief
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So you actually tell them to “**** right off”. Really?
Hows that working for you.
Yeah I would. I've told a supervisor to get off a scene and I've done the same with a fire fighter for yelling at a student of mine. Well....I'm still here all these years later and I got my job done, so just fine I reckon.
 

CALEMT

The Other Guy/ Paramaybe?
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So when it comes to a medical call where I don't need PD? I can and will tell them to **** right off.
Oh... you're one of those people... building a good relationship between allied agencies I see... and I thought me being the fire medic I was supposed to be the designated Mr. Personality.

Does PD dictate my medical care on scene? No. I've built relationships with no only LE but AMR as well. Will PD dictate where the pt will go? Sometimes yes... unless my protocol on pt transportation supersedes where they want them to go I politely inform them on what my protocol states. I don't tell them to **** right off.
 

CCCSD

Forum Asst. Chief
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They can and they'll get shown the door.
Got news for you: there are times where LE CAN and WILL tell you what to do, same as FD.

You seem to have the ParaGod syndrome. Everything you do, WILL come back and bite you. Not a good way to do things. But...some EMTs just have to learn the hard way
 

CCCSD

Forum Asst. Chief
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Yeah I would. I've told a supervisor to get off a scene and I've done the same with a fire fighter for yelling at a student of mine. Well....I'm still here all these years later and I got my job done, so just fine I reckon.
Ah. So you‘ve NOT actually told LE to “**** right off”.
Just because you are still employed does not mean all is well.
 

StCEMT

Forum Deputy Chief
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Oh... you're one of those people... building a good relationship between allied agencies I see... and I thought me being the fire medic I was supposed to be the designated Mr. Personality.

Does PD dictate my medical care on scene? No. I've built relationships with no only LE but AMR as well. Will PD dictate where the pt will go? Sometimes yes... unless my protocol on pt transportation supersedes where they want them to go I politely inform them on what my protocol states. I don't tell them to **** right off.
When it comes to a certain threshold such as anyone (not just PD) actually stopping me from doing my job? Yeah, I am. Most of my shift wouldn't tolerate that from anyone nor mince words about it. Specific to this, It's never an issue because we know pretty much all of them here to some degree. We defer to them when appropriate and vice versa. I've seen 8 different officers tonight alone and guess what? I know/recognize them all and we went about our things like we always have for years. There isn't a bad working relationship because there are many here that I talk to and hang out with outside of work.
 
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StCEMT

Forum Deputy Chief
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Got news for you: there are times where LE CAN and WILL tell you what to do, same as FD.

You seem to have the ParaGod syndrome. Everything you do, WILL come back and bite you. Not a good way to do things. But...some EMTs just have to learn the hard way
Yes, and when it's their time to do so I do what they need. Just as my SOG states.

It's not paragod. I don't let other people dictate my job when the liability for that patient falls on me and my name is the one that will take the brunt of any liability should something go wrong.
Ah. So you‘ve NOT actually told LE to “**** right off”.
Just because you are still employed does not mean all is well.
No, because ours let me do my job as I need just like I let them do theirs. None of us get in the way with the exception of poor parking choices.
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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So when it comes to a medical call where I don't need PD? I can and will tell them to **** right off.
BS flag thrown.

you have a violent patient, or combative OD, and you just tell the PD to **** right off? I don't buy it, not for a second. In fact, I've love to hear from your agency leadership that they would approve of you telling a cop to **** off or what their thoughts on your employment status would be if you did that.

You want to cancel them before they get there, tell them they aren't needed, sure, but if they are there and you tell them to **** off, I am pretty sure your boss will want to have a chat with you about your behavior.

I'm pretty sure if you were in the situation that the mccormick EMT, and you have 5 cops surrounding you (one aiming a taser at you), with the Sgt wanting you to be arrested for assault, you'll end up in handcuffs one way or another.
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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But don't start a video with the medic stating "I feared for my life". That's slanting/predisposing the incident for the audience. Melodrama, not factual objective new reporting.
He wasn't fearing for his life because the patient got off the stretcher; it was because he was a black man in LA, where 5 cops were surrounding him, one with a taser aimed at him, and the Sgt wanting him arrested for doing his job.
 

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