Just another regular dialysis patient....so it was supposed to be.

[shadowstewie]

Holy crap....I must have received the wrong training.

I mean, after only a month on the truck and this cat knows everything. I've been out here for about 10 years and feel as though I know nothing...wow.




The last sentence in your post contradicts itself and proves everyone's point. HOW do you know it wasn't a smart move by the medics??? The ink on your card is still wet. Trust me, you are no authority on what is and isn't a smart move by the medics. I sure wasn't after a month out of school.

Furthermore, we are out here to to what's right for the PATIENT, NOT FOR THE AMBULANCE COMPANY'S BOTTOM LINE!!! Once ALS is called and arrives on scene, the PARAMEDIC calls the shots. NOT YOU! Your patient now becomes the medic's responsibility. The medic should have went after your and your partner's license.

Oh, and BTW, your manager is a :censored: incompetent moron.

Okay lol, I wasn't on that call nor was even hired when our company's EMT disobeyed the Paramedic. Our manager just told us that story. And yes, the Paramedic did try to have the EMT's license pulled but the OCEMS Agency denied it because the EMT did what was right and it was in the patient's best interest. The OCEMS Agency was the one who told our company to not let Medics say that they can pull anyone's license because they can't. Only the OCEMS Agency is allowed to do that.

 

[shadowstewie]

Okay, I will say it. Noobie, you and your partner have NO business in prehospital care, transporting live patients... heck; even dead one's. I would not even suggest being a driver of carcass removal transport system.

I will say thank-you though. Yeah, thanks for setting EMS back 40 years to the old "ambulance driver" stigma.

You both attempted to disguise yourself as a knowledgeable EMT's but in reality displayed the biggest case of dumbass! Seriously, you have just completed a first aid course and now you and your idiot partner attempts to interpret numbers that you have no clue what they represent!

As previously stated and discussed, there are multiple reasons for those numbers as well as numerous other potential risks and dangers. Again, material not taught in your first aid course.

If you do value your certification, then I would request to never work with that person again. I do hope the medics pursue and request formal action against your EMS and the other EMT. As well, as the patient and family take legal action and litigation against both of you.

I doubt that you will return and discuss this further, and I dare your partner to attempt to defend their action(s). I would welcome the opportunity!

I highly suggest to start hitting the books and gaining some real education and maturity. You will look back at this and hopefully chalk this up as experience on what not to do from now on.
R/r 911

Like I said before and i'll say it again. That Paramedic DID try to pull the EMT's license but the OCEMS Agency DENIED HIS CLAIM because the EMT was doing what was for the patient's best interest. The OCEMS also told our COMPANY to not listen to Paramedics if they say anything about pulling our licenses because they cannot officially do that. Only the OCEMS is allowed to do that.

 

[medichopeful]

Like I said before and i'll say it again. That Paramedic DID try to pull the EMT's license but the OCEMS Agency DENIED HIS CLAIM because the EMT was doing what was for the patient's best interest. The OCEMS also told our COMPANY to not listen to Paramedics if they say anything about pulling our licenses because they cannot officially do that. Only the OCEMS is allowed to do that.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how refusing to hand off a patient to a higher medical authority is in the patient's best interests.

And check your ego, or you'll be the one pulling this move next.

 

[Sasha]

I really don't see how not listening to the paramedic and taking the patient with a lower level of care is in the best interest of the patient. I'm starting to think this whole thread is BS.

A nurse not knowing what to do? No love. A nurse works on orders, she can't just send the patient to the hospital unless it is a true, dire emergency without orders. That's how it works around here. If it's not cardiac arrest she must contact the doctor and get the go ahead.

Just because you weren't standing next to him doesn't mean you weren't scaring the bejeesus out of him.

 

[VentMedic]

A nurse not knowing what to do? No love. A nurse works on orders, she can't just send the patient to the hospital unless it is a true, dire emergency without orders. That's how it works around here. If it's not cardiac arrest she must contact the doctor and get the go ahead.

No, nurses have standing orders or protocols for many things also. If they believe there might be something else that can be done or to see if the patient needs to be admitted, then they will make the call to a doctor. The patient is going to be leaving their clinic and they do want to run any possibilites past a physician first and allow him/her to assume the responsibility in situations that are borderline.

 

[VentMedic]

Okay lol, I wasn't on that call nor was even hired when our company's EMT disobeyed the Paramedic. Our manager just told us that story. And yes, the Paramedic did try to have the EMT's license pulled but the OCEMS Agency denied it because the EMT did what was right and it was in the patient's best interest. The OCEMS Agency was the one who told our company to not let Medics say that they can pull anyone's license because they can't. Only the OCEMS Agency is allowed to do that.

Do you not see the problem with this? Under a different medical director for the county, do you think things might have a very different outcome? If this happened in a neighboring county, do you think things might be different? If the state EMSA decides to investigate as they now have for several complaints about the direction of different counties and disturbing issues, do you not think things might turn out very differently for someone else? Right now in California, if you know the Medical Director, you can get an EMT cert even if you are a convicted child killer. The situation you have described is also why the state needs to take some of the disciplining authority away from each county and start holding those with certifications more accountable for their actions.

Regardless of the issues with California, it is important YOU understand why blatantly defying a higher medical level is not in the best interest of the patient. If you can not see a problem with this, then yes I will agree with the others. You will not do well in this profession nor will the patients you come into contact with.

 

[shadowstewie]

Do you not see the problem with this? Under a different medical director for the county, do you think things might have a very different outcome? If this happened in a neighboring county, do you think things might be different? If the state EMSA decides to investigate as they now have for several complaints about the direction of different counties and disturbing issues, do you not think things might turn out very differently for someone else? Right now in California, if you know the Medical Director, you can get an EMT cert even if you are a convicted child killer. The situation you have described is also why the state needs to take some of the disciplining authority away from each county and start holding those with certifications more accountable for their actions.

Regardless of the issues with California, it is important YOU understand why blatantly defying a higher medical level is not in the best interest of the patient. If you can not see a problem with this, then yes I will agree with the others. You will not do well in this profession nor will the patients you come into contact with.

Noooo, I completely see where you are coming from. I guess the EMT that was working for our company had been on for years and years and was also a registered Medic even though he was only hired on BLS. Supposedly he knew that it wasn't in the best interest for the patient because the patient was posing life threatening problems and the Medic's wanted him to take the patient out of his BLS ambulance and put them into another BLS ambulance which would have wasted precious time dealing with the patient, because the Paramedic told him once the patient was secure in the other BLS ambulance, they would work on him. I don't know. I just think that is kind of dumb to switch ambulances if they are both BLS. Going from a BLS to an ALS rig, that's a different story. But does anyone kinda see where I'm coming from a little?

 

[medichopeful]

Noooo, I completely see where you are coming from. I guess the EMT that was working for our company had been on for years and years and was also a registered Medic even though he was only hired on BLS. Supposedly he knew that it wasn't in the best interest for the patient because the patient was posing life threatening problems and the Medic's wanted him to take the patient out of his BLS ambulance and put them into another BLS ambulance which would have wasted precious time dealing with the patient, because the Paramedic told him once the patient was secure in the other BLS ambulance, they would work on him. I don't know. I just think that is kind of dumb to switch ambulances if they are both BLS. Going from a BLS to an ALS rig, that's a different story. But does anyone kinda see where I'm coming from a little?

So you're saying that your partner, a trained paramedic who had been working for years, wasted time by arguing with a paramedic who was on duty as a paramedic, all while the patient's life was in danger? And you're saying that your co-worker called for ALS, decided that he didn't like what showed up, and then decided that he would, instead, keep the patient in his truck, even though an ALS unit was there?


I just want to point this out:

I just think that is kind of dumb to switch ambulances if they are both BLS. Going from a BLS to an ALS rig, that's a different story

Wouldn't going from a truck staffed by basics to a truck staffed by at least one medic count? Why would an on duty paramedic work in a BLS ambulance?

Your story isn't really making much sense.

 

[shadowstewie]

So you're saying that your partner, a trained paramedic who had been working for years, wasted time by arguing with a paramedic who was on duty as a paramedic, all while the patient's life was in danger? And you're saying that your co-worker called for ALS, decided that he didn't like what showed up, and then decided that he would, instead, keep the patient in his truck, even though an ALS unit was there?


I just want to point this out:


Wouldn't going from a truck staffed by basics to a truck staffed by at least one medic count? Why would an on duty paramedic work in a BLS ambulance?

Your story isn't really making much sense.

Okay, for the last time! I was not working with this crew when it happened! I wasn't even hired with this company yet when all this happened! I was just telling a story about it. No, an ALS unit wasn't there at all. The Fire Department engine showed up along with their private contracted BLS company. There was no Rescue ALS unit on scene. Both units were BLS units that had BLS supplies in them. Why would the Medic not go in our company's BLS ambulance and treat the patient while the patient is already secure in it ready to go, instead of what he wanted to do in the first place; switch out the patient while the patient was posing life threatening problems to put him in the same kind of ambulance as ours, just a regular BLS. That's wasting time isn't it? The Medic stated that once the patient was secure in the other BLS ambulance, they would work on him. Why wouldn't the Medic work on the patient in OUR ambulance since the patient is ready to go and all? The Medic wanted our company's EMT to move the patient onto ANOTHER BLS stretcher. Don't you guys thing that isn't right? Or am I completely missing something?

 

[Sasha]

Am I the only one really confused?

 

[rescue99]

The Medic wanted our company's EMT to move the patient onto ANOTHER BLS stretcher. Don't you guys thing that isn't right? Or am I completely missing something?[/QUOTE]


With everything else aside...not! No way would I have played musical cots with another equally licensed crew. On this, you are correct. ALS should have done a quick ALS equipment grab just as in any other intercept. There was no justification to do anything differently. Now I see why the BLS boss defended his crew.

 

[Tiberius]

:huh:

Okay.....I think I know which direction this thread is going....

or

This thread makes as much sense as this does...

My head hurts now.

 

[shadowstewie]

The Medic wanted our company's EMT to move the patient onto ANOTHER BLS stretcher. Don't you guys thing that isn't right? Or am I completely missing something?

With everything else aside...not! No way would I have played musical cots with another equally licensed crew. On this, you are correct. ALS should have done a quick ALS equipment grab just as in any other intercept. There was no justification to do anything differently. Now I see why the BLS boss defended his crew.

Thank you! I'm glad you know where I'm finally coming from.

 

[NEMed2]

Thank you! I'm glad you know where I'm finally coming from.

Where was this medic when they were instructing you to move the pt to the other BLS ambulance? In your original post it sounded like the medic was on scene, which completely changes the situation.

I'm wondering how you think that a paramedic can treat a patient in a BLS truck. Surely they cannot move all the equipment over to the BLS truck. IV and a bag of saline, maybe the drug box, maybe, but they can require more than that and you wouldnt even know it.

I run on a BLS ambulance and if a call is ALS we either intercept en route or meet ALS on scene if time allows. They typically will grab their gear & get into our ambulace. The ALS departments we work with have their gear set up this way. I have never had an instance where a paramedic needed something and did not have it.

 

[VentMedic]

Noooo, I completely see where you are coming from. I guess the EMT that was working for our company had been on for years and years and was also a registered Medic even though he was only hired on BLS. Supposedly he knew that it wasn't in the best interest for the patient because the patient was posing life threatening problems and the Medic's wanted him to take the patient out of his BLS ambulance and put them into another BLS ambulance which would have wasted precious time dealing with the patient, because the Paramedic told him once the patient was secure in the other BLS ambulance, they would work on him. I don't know. I just think that is kind of dumb to switch ambulances if they are both BLS. Going from a BLS to an ALS rig, that's a different story. But does anyone kinda see where I'm coming from a little?

I don't think you know any of the facts of this situation.

As far as this Paramedic(?), I think if any of this is true, there is little doubt as to why he is only working BLS.

 

[Akulahawk]

My comments inline... for easy reading

Where was this medic when they were instructing you to move the pt to the other BLS ambulance? In your original post it sounded like the medic was on scene, which completely changes the situation.

From what I read from the original post (which is likely company legend), it definitely sounds like the Paramedic was on-scene. If the medic made patient contact, he's officially in charge... and that BLS crew could been charged with (or hassled for) PC 148...


I run on a BLS ambulance and if a call is ALS we either intercept en route or meet ALS on scene if time allows. They typically will grab their gear & get into our ambulace. The ALS departments we work with have their gear set up this way. I have never had an instance where a paramedic needed something and did not have it.

In the past, the few times we've had to do ALS intercepts, the medic was aware that there was no ALS transport unit coming, or the ETA for that transport was so long that they would ensure that whatever they needed for that transport was all in one bag. They'd toss it in the BLS unit and away they go. Of course, this was in a system with ALS Ambulances and uses BLS Ambulances as backup as needed. Doing an intercept was unusual, but nowhere close to unheard-of.

 

[harkj]

ugh some people give emt-b such bad names for one if you felt the need to ask for an ALS unit you were all ready way over your head and you couldnt do what was needed for the pt and thats why we are here (hopefully)

 

[Ridryder911]

Sniff...sniff... anyone else smell that? Smells like B.S. or let's change the scenario as we have found out by unanimous opinion of what a case of dumbass is?

Now, the story changes with each post.. ALS working BLS.. BLS w./Paramedic's .. dumb and scared RN from arrogant and an idiot EMT.

Sorry, either you did not post correctly the first time or building (attempting) to dig yourself out of stupidity with a spoon.

It's much better to face the music and say... "You know what? I screwed the pooch" and go on and live to learn not to ever do the same mistake again. Never tolerate such erroneous decision making.

RN upset or not, the EMT did not allow the higher trained (they were able to provide care) to do their duty, as well whom ran in with lights & sirens representing that it was a life threatening emergency? .....

Part of maturing in this business is being able to justify each and every action you perform. Right or wrong! Own up to your decisions and build up to be better each every time. This is how those that become good do so.. they learn off their and everyone elses mistakes on what NOT to do.

R/r 911

 

[kittaypie]

It's much better to face the music and say... "You know what? I screwed the pooch" and go on and live to learn not to ever do the same mistake again.

i know this is a little off topic but i was watching the scrubs episode today where Dr. Cox mentions "screwing the pooch" and it made me giggle a bit...

anyway... carry on!

 

[usafmedic45]

Okay, I will say it. Noobie, you and your partner have NO business in prehospital care, transporting live patients... heck; even dead one's. I would not even suggest being a driver of carcass removal transport system.

I will say thank-you though. Yeah, thanks for setting EMS back 40 years to the old "ambulance driver" stigma.

You both attempted to disguise yourself as a knowledgeable EMT's but in reality displayed the biggest case of dumbass! Seriously, you have just completed a first aid course and now you and your idiot partner attempts to interpret numbers that you have no clue what they represent!

As previously stated and discussed, there are multiple reasons for those numbers as well as numerous other potential risks and dangers. Again, material not taught in your first aid course.

If you do value your certification, then I would request to never work with that person again. I do hope the medics pursue and request formal action against your EMS and the other EMT. As well, as the patient and family take legal action and litigation against both of you.

I doubt that you will return and discuss this further, and I dare your partner to attempt to defend their action(s). I would welcome the opportunity!

I highly suggest to start hitting the books and gaining some real education and maturity. You will look back at this and hopefully chalk this up as experience on what not to do from now on.
R/r 911

Wow....even as a guy who gets regularly told he's too harsh to the newbies.....wow. However, I do not disagree in the slightest.

Anyone want to bet that the blood pressure might have been taken in the arm with the shunt? ......

You beat me to it.