How often do you transport patients to the ED that do not need that level of care?

Tigger said:
Do you bill if you do not treat as well?
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If the person calls we bill. Why should we do it for free? If a bystander calls and the patient does not need/accept treatment no bill.
 
medic417 said:
If the person calls we bill. Why should we do it for free? If a bystander calls and the patient does not need/accept treatment no bill.
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Without knowing your agency's operational model (local/county third service, fire, commercial, public utility model etc), I don't think it would be appropriate to comment.

I will say that the vast majority of fire and police services are provided without charge, though they are of course tax funded. It doesn't quite seem right to have to pay for a cop to come out and check something out does it?
 
Most patients get a ride though we usually are successful in talking people out of hospital who really don't need to be there. The problem is by leaving people at home you are taking on some risk yourself- the stomach virus causing vomiting may turn out to be something worse, the headache a stroke.
 
You call, we haul, that's all.:glare: I have found with most that you can't educate and you can't motivate.
 
the_negro_puppy said:
Most patients get a ride though we usually are successful in talking people out of hospital who really don't need to be there. The problem is by leaving people at home you are taking on some risk yourself- the stomach virus causing vomiting may turn out to be something worse, the headache a stroke.
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What's your billing model down under?
 
Tigger said:
Without knowing your agency's operational model (local/county third service, fire, commercial, public utility model etc), I don't think it would be appropriate to comment.

I will say that the vast majority of fire and police services are provided without charge, though they are of course tax funded. It doesn't quite seem right to have to pay for a cop to come out and check something out does it?
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County service. Tax does not come close to carrying the cost of operating a service thus a service must bill for services rendered.

Fire in most places does bill insurance companys.

Police may not charge for all calls but many communities nownuisanceusance fees for alarm calls, etc.
 
medic417 said:
County service. Tax does not come close to carrying the cost of operating a service thus a service must bill for services rendered.

Fire in most places does bill insurance companys.

Police may not charge for all calls but many communities nownuisanceusance fees for alarm calls, etc.
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For what it's worth I have zero problem with billing for treat and release. It makes sense, transport is just one of things EMS (should be) providing. I imagine though that it must be hard to recoup some of those bills with insurance not paying for it.
 
firefite said:
Transported a female from a car accident (small fender binder) who's c/c was "my weave (sp? Hair extension) fell off". We attempted to educate her while in transport but I highly doubt she listened.
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Id be very tempted to say the force of the accident was enough to knock hair off her head and spinal precautions would be in order.


Maybe even mast pants.
 
EpiEMS said:
What's your billing model down under?
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Extreme socialist. Ambulances are 'free' to residents of the state, paid for by the state government. Public hospitals are also 'free' paid by state governments. Obviously our services get blatantly abused.

Case in not today- spent 90 minutes assessing, driving and offloading a 44 year old patient with fever 2 week hx of such with end stage liver failure. Pt had no other symptoms was fully mobile and talkative. When I said 'theres not much we can do for you' the patients wife replied "we dont drive, sorry to use you like this"
 
the_negro_puppy said:
Case in not today- spent 90 minutes assessing, driving and offloading a 44 year old patient with fever 2 week hx of such with end stage liver failure. Pt had no other symptoms was fully mobile and talkative. When I said 'theres not much we can do for you' the patients wife replied "we dont drive, sorry to use you like this"
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See, if I were a socialist system planner or administrator, I'd be extremely pissed about that usage of an ambulance. Interesting stuff.

What's your boss (supervisor?) say about this sort of thing? Are you guys encouraged to not treat and transport those who don't need it?
 
bahnrokt said:
Id be very tempted to say the force of the accident was enough to knock hair off her head and spinal precautions would be in order.


Maybe even mast pants.
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Yeah.... I've never seen mast pants before haha.

Once we got to the hospital the doctor did decide to establish 2 large bore IVs (16G)....
 
EpiEMS said:
See, if I were a socialist system planner or administrator, I'd be extremely pissed about that usage of an ambulance. Interesting stuff.

What's your boss (supervisor?) say about this sort of thing? Are you guys encouraged to not treat and transport those who don't need it?
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Our bosses do encourage us to leave people where necessary however if we leave one person at home and something bad happens they will throw us to the dogs.
 
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