How NOT to drive Code 3.

[46Young]

They blew through numerous red lights. There was no communication, i.e. "Trafffic" or "Clear right." That taxi cab was a glaring example of that. There were a couple of other scenes where vehicles were braking hard trying to avoid them because they didn't come to a stop at the red light.(You should be coming to a full stop at all red lights and stop signs. At a four way stop, if everyone is stopped and sees you, I'll slowly roll through.)

They came within a couple feet of pedestrians at high speed on a couple different occasions.

They pushed traffic into intersections at red lights. (Proper Code 3 driving indicates you at least shut your siren off, if not your lights too, until the light turns green when it's that congested)

They passed on the right.(That's a big no, no. Not sure what NY law is, but if you pass on the right and a vehicle decides to yield to the right and hit you, guess who is at fault?)

One of the things that I stress to anyone I precept is that Code 3 driving is without a doubt THE most dangerous thing we do. These guys in the video would never last a day in any system I have ever worked for. They an accident waiting to happen. They, and medics like them, are another reason the general public doesn't respect EMS in some areas. If you lived in an area where this kind of Code 3 driving was tolerated, what would your general impression of EMS workers be?

A couple of things:

If you wait for everyone to stop at each intersection, you'll be waiting a loooooong time to get through intersections there. Whet we always did was enter the intersection, make like we're going to go through, make it like we're going to run into them. In reality we could stop before we enter their path, but we scare them into stopping. Otherwise, cars will keep on passing through, figuring that they can "make it" before the ambulance goes through. Same thing for pedestrians. With people in the city, it's like they dare you to hit them. "They need to wait for me!" "What are they going to do, hit me?" "I'll sue." Everyone is self important, and disrespect for emergency vehicles much worse than I've seen anywhere else. In NY you need to "persuade" the motorists and pedestrians to do what you need them to do.

Wait at an intersection with your sirens and maybe lights cut off? There's a red light and a congested every other block. This is to control speed in the city. We drive the way we do in NYC as a matter of necessity due to the congestion and unwillingness of motorists and pedestrians to yield the right of way.

Due to that congestion and lack of yielding, it's common to go to whatever opening you have. Pasing on the right is common. Because of all the double parked cars and gridlock, it's necessary to weave your way through whatever way you can.

It's a congested, aggressive city, not the suburbs or out in the sticks.

 

[46Young]

Force is the perfect word. If you weren't sitting there, riding up the bumper of the car in front of you, working the siren across all the tones and using the airhorn they wouldn't feel the pressure to get out of your way.

While you condone this, I can guarantee you that not one emergency driving expert in this country would agree with you. And unless state law says you can do all the things you see on this video or you say happens on a daily basis, I feel sorry for the poor :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: who causes a wreck and has to sit on the witness stand in court trying to convince a jury "that's how we all have done it for years."

We're covered going through an intersection as long as our lights are on and our sirens are running continuously.

 

[firecoins]

The NYPD, FDNY and EMS units in NYC know how to drive safely for NYC. It might be more aggressive than other cities, suburban areas or rural areas due to the high congestion. It has to be in order to make it through Manhattan.

The video in post one is NOT an example of wreckless driving as some have claimed here. It is safe for the NYC driving environment. The unit never even approached the posted "speed limit" at any point in the video. That speed limit is 35 mph. They did the standard NYC code 3 response. Yes if everyone jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, the crew would jump too, after it stopped for lunch first.

A driver an emergency vehicle responing to a call is responsible for the vehicle. Coming to a full stop and than getting into an accident does not shift responsibility to the other driver.

 

[JJR512]

Just registering my agreement with Post #s 121 and 123.

 

[looker]

The NYPD, FDNY and EMS units in NYC know how to drive safely for NYC. It might be more aggressive than other cities, suburban areas or rural areas due to the high congestion. It has to be in order to make it through Manhattan.

The video in post one is NOT an example of wreckless driving as some have claimed here. It is safe for the NYC driving environment. The unit never even approached the posted "speed limit" at any point in the video. That speed limit is 35 mph. They did the standard NYC code 3 response. Yes if everyone jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, the crew would jump too, after it stopped for lunch first.

A driver an emergency vehicle responing to a call is responsible for the vehicle. Coming to a full stop and than getting into an accident does not shift responsibility to the other driver.

An emergency vehicle is requesting right of way. Which means an emergency vehicle must make sure an intersection is clear before entering it. If an accident is resulted from an emergency vehicle entering an intersection while stop lights tells it to stop it will be found at fault of the accident.

 

[LonghornMedic]

If you guys insist on taking that kind of risk, go ahead. When I first started out, I drove pretty aggressively to make my times. But then I saw some crews get cited by the cops after some accidents. Then the agency cut them loose. I realized that it just wasn't worth it. If the agency needs to meet its time requirements for responses, then they can hire more medics and put more units in the field. I started doing no more than 10 over the speed limit(state law), came to full and complete stops at all red lights and stop signs(state law) and only passed on the left(state law).

 

[LonghornMedic]

I bet these guys thought the way they drove was okay too.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d53NjaNQYJk[/YOUTUBE]

 

[firecoins]

An emergency vehicle is requesting right of way. Which means an emergency vehicle must make sure an intersection is clear before entering it. If an accident is resulted from an emergency vehicle entering an intersection while stop lights tells it to stop it will be found at fault of the accident.

If you get into an accident while going lights and sirens, its your fault. That is pretty much it. Any decent lawyer can blame you in court and win. It is deulusional to believe coming to a full stop itself will let you of the hook. Unless the other person was drunk, had no license or insurance, its your fault.

 

[firecoins]

I bet these guys thought the way they drove was okay too.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d53NjaNQYJk[/YOUTUBE]

No! No! No!. This current video does not demonstrate NOT a Manhattan intersection with one way streets, lots of vehicular and pedestrian traffic. You continue to misunderstand what your being told. It is not in anyway the same situation. Your current video is a high speed code three response on a multi lane and multi direction intersection. This does not exist in Manhattan where the St Vincents crews responded.

 

[Veneficus]

I bet these guys thought the way they drove was okay too.

I wonder if they saved any time responding to the call or transporting the pt. and if they arrived at destination just in time to save a life?

I'm guessing "no."

 

[46Young]

I would also question the need for a command vehicle to be on scene THAT quickly for a fire. I understand that command is needed, however, the whole fire service is built around command and an engine officer is fully capable of assuming command at a normal sized structure fire.

I don't know how things work around your way, but here, the first due engine officer takes command. That crew can't go inside until the officer passes command. Command can only be transferred once at the company level. So, then the second due's crew is handcuffed until the BC takes command. Most fires are either food on the stove, an appliance fire, or a false alarm. But, when it's the real deal, every second counts.

 

[Veneficus]

I don't know how things work around your way, but here, the first due engine officer takes command. That crew can't go inside until the officer passes command. Command can only be transferred once at the company level. So, then the second due's crew is handcuffed until the BC takes command. Most fires are either food on the stove, an appliance fire, or a false alarm. But, when it's the real deal, every second counts.

Intending no offense, but that sounds very messed up.

You lose the use of an entire crew because of one officer?

I have known several places where Captains were more than able to command a box alarm. Not only that, it is the point of having a Captain on an engine instead of a Lt.

That just sounds like people trying to protect their positions than an actual functional use.

Oh well, different things different places right?

 

[46Young]

Intending no offense, but that sounds very messed up.

You lose the use of an entire crew because of one officer?

I have known several places where Captains were more than able to command a box alarm. Not only that, it is the point of having a Captain on an engine instead of a Lt.

That just sounds like people trying to protect their positions than an actual functional use.

Oh well, different things different places right?

They're saffety sallies. Safe to a fault in many instances. They don't want a crew going in w/o their officer. There's really no difference between a Capt and a Lt from a functional standpoint. The position of OIC is the same. They're equally capable of handling command. Luckily, in the majority of areas, the units are stacked. By the time the officer does a lap and the FF's pull the line, the second due is already there, along with the BC.

 

[Shishkabob]

Because firefighters there don't know not to touch burning stuff without being told so?
h34r:

 

[LonghornMedic]

No! No! No!. This current video does not demonstrate NOT a Manhattan intersection with one way streets, lots of vehicular and pedestrian traffic. You continue to misunderstand what your being told. It is not in anyway the same situation. Your current video is a high speed code three response on a multi lane and multi direction intersection. This does not exist in Manhattan where the St Vincents crews responded.

With all due respect, this ambulance was travelling at the same speed going through that intersection as the crew in the NYC video. It looked remarkably similar to the near miss with the cab. Only that the cab missed them by inches instead of getting clobbered.

 

[JJR512]

I went to Youtube and read the description for that video. So I know what it says, but I have to wonder if that's really an accurate description, because the way the helicopter's camera is tracking the ambulance so closely looks suspiciously similar to the way they pursue stolen vehicles. On the other hand, whoever was driving did slow down some, which vehicle thieves don't typically bother to do, so maybe it is legit.

 

[JPINFV]

Googling "Toronto EMS 874" (without the quote marks limit in the Google search) doesn't bring up anyhting about a hijacking.

 

[EMS/LEO505]

I bet these guys thought the way they drove was okay too.

*sorry if there was audio I couldnt hear do to broken speakers. But it looks like its a police chase, I mean why else would a helicopter and police be following an ambulance?

 

[DrParasite]

*sorry if there was audio I couldnt hear do to broken speakers. But it looks like its a police chase, I mean why else would a helicopter and police be following an ambulance?

lots of reasons for a cop to follow an ambulance...

first being the person in the back could be under arrest, second could be it could be an officer in the back, third could be the officer needs to ask the patient questions about the incident (shooting/stabbing/assault) for a police investigation.

as for the helicopter, could just be a nosey reporter

 

[firecoins]

With all due respect, this ambulance was travelling at the same speed going through that intersection as the crew in the NYC video. It looked remarkably similar to the near miss with the cab. Only that the cab missed them by inches instead of getting clobbered.

With all due respect, t was not going through intersection in a similar intersection in any capacity. I can identify where the St. Vinnie's crew was driving because I have been on that street a million times. NO SUCH INTERSECTION EXISTS IN MANHATTAN Try Again. The St Vinnies crew also never reaches that speed. SImply can't do it on 42nd street going crosstown.