How much trouble am I in?

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Smitty174

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so....a few months back I admit I was lazy and responded to a call where a lady was drunk and took a bunch of pills. She was a pain in the *** and I made her walk to the ambulance. To make it a little worse we had her crawl into the back of the ambulance and she fell. I think it may have been caught on a cruiser dash cam because OEMS stated that they received a complaint and have a video of the incident. My question is....how much trouble am I in?
 
No idea. It's not uncommon for us to have patients walk into the ambulance, but it's usually for mild complaints with patients that can ambulate fine. We don't know how obtunded and unstable your patient was to know how inappropriate it was. And did any damage/injury result from the fall? You're probably just going to have to wait and see.
 
I would think that's grounds for termination. It sounds like negligence to me.
 
STXmedic said:
No idea. It's not uncommon for us to have patients walk into the ambulance, but it's usually for mild complaints with patients that can ambulate fine. We don't know how obtunded and unstable your patient was to know how inappropriate it was. And did any damage/injury result from the fall? You're probably just going to have to wait and see.
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Well, she literally climbed in the back of the ambulance, not the side door. She didn't get hurt from the fall, but it looks kinda bad now that I've seen the video. She was about fifty and drank a lot of alcohol and her depression meds.
 
Really ? I get drunk and pain in the *** patients all the time and i never make them "crawl " inside my ambulance because if they fall it would be my fault and i will be held liable. Now you learned your lesson from this. You never know who is watching or what is recording these days.
 
Think about how you would feel if some EMTS made your mom crawl to the ambulance.

That's how much trouble you're in. And if there's a video, the BEST you can hope for is termination.
 
DEmedic said:
Think about how you would feel if some EMTS made your mom crawl to the ambulance.
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This. More often than none my patients will walk to the gurney but never under any circumstances will a patient crawl into the back of my rig. They will be loaded onto the gurney and the will be seat belted onto said gurney.

If theres video and it sounds like there is, I'd be very surprised if you got a write up (final) and some remediation training. There was a video in EVOC of a crew dropping a patient who was on the gurney and both were terminated. Like others have already stated its pretty serious and grounds for termination.
 
I trice what was stated above. Treat every patient as family and if theyre being annoying be respectful and "kill them with kindness"
 
Thanks for the responses. The company manager told me not to worry about it at all. I just really fear Massachusetts OEMS. I have no idea how strict they are or if they will leave the discipline up to my manager.
 
If I recall, MAOEMS is really into not walking patients to the ambulance regardless of condition. So that's an issue. Not to mention making someone crawl to the ambulance is probably a rather a poor idea and does not exactly portray you as a competent provider. Even if they're being difficult, you still have no excuse. Do your job.
 
Personally it doesn't sound to me like something that should put your certification at risk. Not saying it won't; just saying I probably wouldn't agree with that, at least not the first time. Getting fired by your employer, though? I would absolutely expect that.

Your actions definitely showed a lack of judgement and compassion that are absolutely critical to an EMS provider.
 
Remi said:
Personally it doesn't sound to me like something that should put your certification at risk. Not saying it won't; just saying I probably wouldn't agree with that, at least not the first time. Getting fired by your employer, though? I would absolutely expect that.

Your actions definitely showed a lack of judgement and compassion that are absolutely critical to an EMS provider.
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Following an incident several years ago in which a poor outcome occurred following a chest pain patient being walked to the ambulance, MA OEMS went off about "patient movement." I don't know if it's still such a big thing, but when I was in MA this sort of thing would likely result in sanctions.
 
How much trouble you are in will have a lot to do with how you documented the incident. If you did not document the fall, yet there is video of it, then that could count against you. It would be much worse yet if you documented that the patient was moved by gurney.
 
Curious what your thought process was...? Can you remember what you were thinking while it was happening? What you were feeling?
 
The fact that you continue to justify you actions and care more about being "in trouble" than how you treated someone in need of actual care speak volumes about your character. The fact that your agency told you "not to worry about it" speaks volumes about theirs.

I'd suggest you look for another line of work but unless Mass OEMS does the right thing it's unlikely you'll seek this route. I'm simply going to say next time you wonder why EMS providers don't any respect among the medical community you take a trip to the mirror.
 
CALEMT said:
This. More often than none my patients will walk to the gurney but never under any circumstances will a patient crawl into the back of my rig. They will be loaded onto the gurney and the will be seat belted onto said gurney.

If theres video and it sounds like there is, I'd be very surprised if you got a write up (final) and some remediation training. There was a video in EVOC of a crew dropping a patient who was on the gurney and both were terminated. Like others have already stated its pretty serious and grounds for termination.
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We probably wouldn't work too well together then. If its a BS complaint where the patient meets us out curb side then I will have them climb into the back of the ambulance. With those same truly BS patients I will usually have them walk from the back of the ambulance straight thru the ED and into the lobby.

Now if I have any doubt on if that patient is not able to ambulate well then they will go on the gurney. 99% of the 5150s that we get from DHSPD station will walk to the gurney and then climb into the back of the ambulance.

Heck, we had a penis pain x 3 weeks where the guy walked 2 miles to get food and then called us out. He climbed into the back of the ambulance and then I walked him from the ambulance bay thru the ED and into the lobby at EMC.

If any of my family called 911 for a completely BS reason I would have zero issues with the ambulance crew having them climb into the back of the ambulance.
 
DesertMedic66 said:
We probably wouldn't work too well together then. If its a BS complaint where the patient meets us out curb side then I will have them climb into the back of the ambulance. With those same truly BS patients I will usually have them walk from the back of the ambulance straight thru the ED and into the lobby.

Now if I have any doubt on if that patient is not able to ambulate well then they will go on the gurney. 99% of the 5150s that we get from DHSPD station will walk to the gurney and then climb into the back of the ambulance.

Heck, we had a penis pain x 3 weeks where the guy walked 2 miles to get food and then called us out. He climbed into the back of the ambulance and then I walked him from the ambulance bay thru the ED and into the lobby at EMC.

If any of my family called 911 for a completely BS reason I would have zero issues with the ambulance crew having them climb into the back of the ambulance.
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Ok, I should probably rephrase my original post. If I happen to take a second patient or its BS like you said, yes I will have them climb in the back of the rig with assistance. I won't just have them willy nilly jump on in/out without help.
 
CALEMT said:
Ok, I should probably rephrase my original post. If I happen to take a second patient or its BS like you said, yes I will have them climb in the back of the rig with assistance. I won't just have them willy nilly jump on in/out without help.
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Luckily a large percentage of our runs are BS, thus a lot get to walk :cool::p
 
CALEMT said:
Ok, I should probably rephrase my original post. If I happen to take a second patient or its BS like you said, yes I will have them climb in the back of the rig with assistance. I won't just have them willy nilly jump on in/out without help.
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I hate when patients willy nilly do things themselves haha
 
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