How much should EMS providers make?

[ExpatMedic0]

for Paramedic currently it should be at least on par with police and fire. Once education standards go up in the U.S. I think it should pay as much or more than an RT or RN. I believe it already does in most the common wealth countries from what I have seen....

The current wage is pitiful, especially in Oregon where we implemented the mandatory degree over 10 years ago and we are still starting Paramedics at 40k a year like most of the U.S. where only vocational certificates are required.

I believe a lot of this may have to do with the way the U.S. EMS reimbursement system is setup. However, its obvious... whatever the problem may be.... The U.S. is behind compared to every other modern western country in the world. Something needs to be done to increase both education and pay, for us and the patients.

 

[NYMedic828]

You only work 24 days a year and make 100 grand after five years!
Holy shot!

Lol, you misread.

And FDNY medics top out around $67,000 without OT, with longevity.

24 days a year for 100,000 perfectly describes an FDNY firefighter though. Less than a month to go

 

[Christopher]

At my FD, we're at $16/hr base, single role medic. $17.50/hr base, dual role FF/Medic. Tack on .25/hr and .50/hr steps for various certifications.

Average pay of probably $18-20/hr, making us the best in the area.

At the hospital it was $14.40ish/hr base, plus shift differentials for evenings/nights/weekends/holidays. Probably an average of $15.50ish/hr for me there.

My druthers for certificate based EMS providers:

$40/yr starting + COLA if on a ~40hr/wk schedule.
$50/yr starting + COLA if on a ~54hr/wk schedule.

GE pays in ~55th percentile and hires brand new software engineers with a 4yr degree in at around 50k/yr, an MS will get you 55-60k/yr. To expect to make more than somebody with a degree in an industry that generates huge amounts of monies...that's a bit far fetched.

Degree based EMS providers:

$55/yr starting + COLA if on a ~40hr/wk schedule. Next steps at $70 and 85 (i.e. 5-7 yrs exp then MS level education).
$65/yr starting + COLA if on a ~54hr/wk schedule. Next steps at $80 and 95 (i.e. 5-7 yrs exp then MS level education).

 

[saskvolunteer]

In Saskatchewan, Canada here starting out EMT/PCP is ~$25/hour plus shift differential for nights and weekends and Paramedics are ~$32/hour starting. Plus step raises every year and pretty good benefits. Still say we deserve more.

 

[NYMedic828]

In Saskatchewan, Canada here starting out EMT/PCP is ~$25/hour plus shift differential for nights and weekends and Paramedics are ~$32/hour starting. Plus step raises every year and pretty good benefits. Still say we deserve more.

Canada requires a degree right?

Anywhere that mandates a degree for EMS should equal what nursing pays assuming equal level degree.

Here in the US, 90% of EMS providers don't deserve higher pay.

 

[CANDawg]

Canada requires a degree right?

You can get a degree, but its not required everywhere. In Alberta there's only one degree program, the rest are just certificates. Ultimately all that matters is passing the separate registration test with ACP.

That said, the programs are much more in depth. EMT programs in Alberta are generally a year (unless they're accelerated), and Medic is two years plus a good couple years of EMT experience to even apply.

 

[NYMedic828]

You can get a degree, but its not required everywhere. In Alberta there's only one degree program, the rest are just certificates. Ultimately all that matters is passing the separate registration test with ACP.

That said, the programs are much more in depth. EMT programs in Alberta are generally a year (unless they're accelerated), and Medic is two years plus a good couple years of EMT experience to even apply.

So its basically a degree, without a degree. That seems silly.

 

[ExpatMedic0]

So its basically a degree, without a degree. That seems silly.

Its almost the same for some U.S. medics who took a 12-18 month full time paramedic program, that required A&P 1(or human bio) plus EMT with a year of experience to apply. That is how my program was, with a degree option. The degree option only added a few liberal arts classes.

On a side note, the word "degree" is interesting.
My buddy's AAS from Oregon in Paramedicine, is recognized as equivalent to undergraduate degree in some country's. Education system is different in every country, many countries do not add the "general education/hummanties/liberal arts" components to there undergraduate degree's like we do. In Denmark many undergraduate degree's are 3 years and you only study whats specific to your job for things like nursing. It sounds similar to me in parts of Australia. In the U.S. many would almost consider this long vocational training in many aspects

 

[CANDawg]

So its basically a degree, without a degree. That seems silly.

To a point. Keep in mind that 2 year 'Associate Degrees' are also rare here. Its mostly either a 3 or 4 year Bachelors or nothing. The degree program I mentioned is a 3 year "Bachelor of Applied Health Science - Paramedic". It jumps you from basic first aid to Paramedic in 3 years. Downside is that there isn't any long term field experience in the middle, which is generally the norm.

 

[Tigger]

On a side note, the word "degree" is interesting.
My buddy's AAS from Oregon in Paramedicine, is recognized as equivalent to undergraduate degree in some country's. Education system is different in every country, many countries do not add the "general education/hummanties/liberal arts" components to there undergraduate degree's like we do. In Denmark many undergraduate degree's are 3 years and you only study whats specific to your job for things like nursing. It sounds similar to me in parts of Australia. In the U.S. many would almost consider this long vocational training in many aspects

That's how they do it in New Zealand too. Bachelor's degrees are three years and at the university I was at you were required to take two general education electives in addition to your major coursework.

Here is the track for one of the two New Zealand university's that offer the paramedic degree:

Year 1
Semester 1 covers an introduction to health science that is then applied to paramedicine practice in semester 2.

555101 Lifespan Development and Communication
555201 Human Anatomy and Physiology I
555301 Knowledge, Enquiry and Communication
555401 Health and Environment OR
555339 Māori Health, Development and Environment
556107 Introduction to Paramedic Practice
556202 Human Anatomy and Physiology II
576211 Risk Management
Year 2
You develop further theory and skills that are applicable to paramedicine practice, as well as the integration of other material relevant to paramedics.

556301 Methods of Research and Enquiry
527188 Pharmacology for Professional Practice
576103 Paramedic Science
576109 Clinical Practice I
576110 Clinical Practice II
576401 Haemodynamics in the Acute Patient
577101 Cardiology
577212 Disaster Theory

Year 3
You apply skills learned in the previous years to develop safe, integrated clinical paramedicine practice incorporating resuscitation, emergency planning and health law. The focus is to prepare you for employment as practising paramedics.

557221 Health Law & Policy
577109 Clinical Reasoning
577111 Paramedic Theory and Management
577112 Integrated Clinical Practice
577213 Emergency Planning
577113 Resuscitation

http://www.aut.ac.nz/study-at-aut/s...-courses/bachelor-of-health-science-paramedic

The NZ paramedic is fairly comparable to our I-99 without ETI, but they have much greater autonomy in terms of treat and release.

 

[VFlutter]

Here is the track for one of the two New Zealand university's that offer the paramedic degree:
.

That is a pretty solid education IMHO. I like that they through a lifespan development class in there. Even though it was boring it has actually been pretty helpful in understanding various stages in life and especially helpful dealing with end of life care.

 

[Tigger]

That is a pretty solid education IMHO. I like that they through a lifespan development class in there. Even though it was boring it has actually been pretty helpful in understanding various stages in life and especially helpful dealing with end of life care.

I would be lying if I said I had not considered never coming back and transferring into that program. Their providers are excellent and so is the system.

 

[mycrofft]

Three times the local poverty level.

Seriously, local COL can vary so much this is hard to approach on a national level. Compare San Francisco to Sacramento to Tupelo MS....

 

[Steveb]

 

[VFlutter]

:deadhorse:

 

[STXmedic]

:deadhorse:

Come on, Chase. You know we're basically doctors at 60mph. :rofl:

 

[VFlutter]

Come on, Chase. You know we're basically doctors at 60mph. :rofl:

Yep, just like I am basically..... Ya I won't even go there h34r:

 

[firecoins]

It's all relative, so I shall make all of my opinions in terms of each other.

IFT is generally a low-stress, low work-volume gig so I think it deserves less compensation than 911 which in most areas tends to be higher stress and higher work volume..

Certainly not low volume where I work and more stressful than 911. Anything will get you fired and your easily replaced. Not a stress free environment if you need the pay check.

 

[Clare]

Here is the track for one of the two New Zealand university's that offer the paramedic degree:

http://www.aut.ac.nz/study-at-aut/s...-courses/bachelor-of-health-science-paramedic

The NZ paramedic is fairly comparable to our I-99 without ETI, but they have much greater autonomy in terms of treat and release.

There is only one University offering a Paramedic Degree and that is AUT; the other Degree is offered by a Polytechnic, it is NOT a University and it is NOT CAA accredited.

There will be some minor changes to the Degree at the end of next year as until now the Degree has taught up to the Intensive Care Paramedic level and December 2013 is the cutoff date for being able to apply to challenge ICP ATP with just the Degree, from then on it will require the Post Graduate Diploma as well as the Degree. I believe the main change will be an increase in the requirement for clinical mentoring to 1,400 hours up from the current 1,200.

I know the Degree is recognised in Australia, UK, Canada and South Africa; I am very surprised it is not recognised in the United States?!

 

[CANDawg]

I know the Degree is recognised in Australia, UK, Canada and South Africa; I am very surprised it is not recognised in the United States?!

Define 'recognized'. Where I live in Canada, it won't get you any further ahead in the process to become registered than training from anywhere else in the world. You still have to go through an equivalency process, remedial training in areas you're determined to be lacking in, and then write the exam.

Might be different in other provinces though.