How long in the field before medic school?

[moonfire197]

There is nothing malpractice about it I think you are blowing what medexpresso was trying to say way out of the water. There are times where things don't get done in order from basic to advanced. I have seen medics who are absolutely great do this. It happens it is part of EMS and if you have never seen it done then I can tell you 100% that you are lying to everyone. They don't make mistakes that are harmful to pt care. The pt is 100% ok it is just simple little things. I never said a word about not bagging and going straigt to intubation or a dual lumen airway or skipping everything and doing a surgical chric. But every medic misses little non harmful things. Just as EMT's do. If you are telling me that you treat 100% of pts perfectly then you are FOS and can stop replying to anything I say. Everyone misses things it happens it is human nature and I get the feeling you believe you are better than everyone and don't make mistakes. That my friend is a lie and you are a liar.

 

[reaper]

There is nothing malpractice about it I think you are blowing what medexpresso was trying to say way out of the water. There are times where things don't get done in order from basic to advanced. I have seen medics who are absolutely great do this. It happens it is part of EMS and if you have never seen it done then I can tell you 100% that you are lying to everyone. They don't make mistakes that are harmful to pt care. The pt is 100% ok it is just simple little things. I never said a word about not bagging and going straigt to intubation or a dual lumen airway or skipping everything and doing a surgical chric. But every medic misses little non harmful things. Just as EMT's do. If you are telling me that you treat 100% of pts perfectly then you are FOS and can stop replying to anything I say. Everyone misses things it happens it is human nature and I get the feeling you believe you are better than everyone and don't make mistakes. That my friend is a lie and you are a liar.

Never stated that I don't miss things. You talk about medics not doing something BLS. You may not know the reason why a medic skipped over a simple skill, because the Pt needed something more advanced, right away.

This is the most recurring statement from EMT's. Most do not have the education to understand why a medic is doing things a certain way. Yes, there are bad medics, that like to play. Most medics are doing assessment and treating accordingly.

Don't come here accusing people of lying, when you know nothing of them or their education. Which is way past 120 hrs!

 

[moonfire197]

Your right but education doesn't make you not a liar. I am not saying you are I was just trying to get my point across and went about it the wrong way for sure. I see what you are saying now that you put it that way. I also have enough training to know why things are done a certain way but there are still times when advanced skills are completed before basic. Like starting and IV before getting a bp that is all I am trying to say. I doesn't mean you should switch fields or anything. I believe you should have some time in the field interacting with pts and crews before starting into an NREMT-P class. That is all. I apologize if I offended you just went about things the wrong way. :blush:

 

[JPINFV]

How about we go back to my original post because I think we're missing sight on what I was responding to.

a lot of Paramedics forget the "basics" once they become ALS. you can't perform good ALS if you can't perform good BLS. Hope that helps some!

If a paramedic forget the "basics" because he's all "ZOMG I GET TO START AN IV!!!!!1111!!11!!," then he needs to find another line of work.

I'm responding to someone who is explicitly talking about the BLS before ALS cliche, and thus implicitly referring to the "EMTs save paramedics" cliche. For the record, my view is that both of those cliches need to die. This isn't about the order of treatments or assessments. This isn't about a paramedic saying "Damn, this patient is about to die. As such, there is absolutely no reason to start at treatment option A when I can clearly see, due to my education, training, and assessment that the patient needs the more advanced treatment option C."

This is about basics saying "ZOMG YOU SKIPPED TREATMENTS A AND B AND THOSE ARE BLS! I SAVED THE PATIENT BECAUSE I REMEMBERED TREATMENTS A AND B."

There are two situations that give rise to that.

Situation A (hopefully rare): The patient really did need steps A and B and the patient would have suffered because steps A and B were skipped. The assumption being made by the basic that "saved" the medic is that a second medic would have missed the importance of steps A and B as well. The medic who failed to realize that he needed to do steps A and B is a danger to patients.


Situation B (most likely): Basic fails to realize that the medic understands that steps A and B are important, but that both takes a back seat to step C in terms of importance. Basic "saves" medic by "reminding" him of steps A and B. Medic does steps A and B for no other reason than to shut the basic up. Basic can now go and claim to all of his other basic friends that he "saved" the medic.

Analysis. The basic really saved the medic in step A. Basic life support is about the furthest that patient care can get from rocket science and is taught to preteens through out the country every year in first aid and CPR courses. If the medic really did fail to do something so basic that only an EMT-B would have seen it, then the medic needs to be retrained, but more likely, probably needs to be fired. Scenario two is a justification of having dual paramedic teams on ambulances and not basic/paramedic teams.



PS Nice personal attack. Stay classy.

 

[JPINFV]

I believe you should have some time in the field interacting with pts and crews before starting into an NREMT-P class. That is all. I apologize if I offended you just went about things the wrong way. :blush:

Why don't you see physicians or nurses required to spend time at a lower level if it was so important?

 

[Ridryder911]

Here let's start a new policy. You can't criticize another EMT or Paramedic unless you have been or at that level. Wow! That will quite things down.

Unfortunately, you see most basics do not understand in real medicine there is NO such thing as BLS or ALS. Medicine is medicine and only in EMS we have to create multiple levels so naive and the dumb would understand their role. Even at least CNA's know their role.

Alike we have said many times before. Unless you are at that level or equal .. How do you really know and what is right and do you have the authority to even criticize?

This is something I never understand with the lower levels. One takes a whopping 100+ hour course, and many assume it makes them the authority in EMS. When in fact, it barely allows them on a ambulance. Some really do have "delusions of grandeur".

R/r 911

 

[el Murpharino]

Erin, what kind of reputation does this instructor have? It would be a real disservice to you to take a class that's closer to home but with a lousy instructor. If you're going to take the jump to the paramedic level, try to find a reputable and accredited program that won't cut corners and education just to boost their graduation numbers.

 

[Anu]

Hello Everyone,

I have been told by many professional medics in the field that one must wait and gain at least one year's experience as an EMT-B before going on to Paramedic School. I realize that this seems to be the general consensus among experienced personnel, but is this really necessary? Particularly if one has acquired college experience prior to working as a basic, and is certain about wanting to become a medic? It just seems a lot more sensible to go directly into a paramedic program, utilizing and building upon the knowledge that one gains from the basic program. In this way, one could accomplish the educational requirements and necessary field experience at the same time.

 

[Ridryder911]

Hello Everyone,

I have been told by many professional medics in the field that one must wait and gain at least one year's experience as an EMT-B before going on to Paramedic School. I realize that this seems to be the general consensus among experienced personnel, but is this really necessary?

No! Who told you this.. other basic EMT's that became Paramedics? Experience is nice, but way over rated. There is very little EMT experience that will help as a Paramedic. Two different jobs and responsibilities.

Particularly if one has acquired college experience prior to working as a basic, and is certain about wanting to become a medic? It just seems a lot more sensible to go directly into a paramedic program, utilizing and building upon the knowledge that one gains from the basic program. In this way, one could accomplish the educational requirements and necessary field experience at the same time.

Get your basic education especially anatomy/physiology and some other general education such as Psychology and English. Seriously, you will obtain all the experience you will need when you become a Paramedic and think of the time you saved!

R/r 911

 

[Hastings]

I am a medic that went straight from Basic to Paramedic with no prior experience before or in between. Best decision I made. I highly suggest just doing it all at once (Basic and Medic). Don't stop in between.

 

[mikie]

I am a medic that went straight from Basic to Paramedic with no prior experience before or in between. Best decision I made. I highly suggest just doing it all at once (Basic and Medic). Don't stop in between.

are there medic programs that don't require basic first?

 

[Hastings]

are there medic programs that don't require basic first?

Not that I know of.

You still want to do Basic. I'm just saying not to stop in between Basic and Medic.

 

[mikie]

From what I've heard from some programs, the basic curriculum is basically (no pun intended) retaught in the begining....is there truth to this?

 

[KEVD18]

every state i know of required you to be a basic to sit for the medic exam.

now, that doesnt mean you have to be a basic with even one day of experience on a truck, just that you have to have the ticket. the ink doesnt even have to be dry.

there was a woman in my medic class that had been a basic a while back but had lapsed, not long maybe three years.

they let her into the program without a basic ticket, with the caveat that she had to have a basic ticket to test. she basically did basic and medic concurrently and by the time the class ended, she had her bls ticket and then of course her medic ticket.

 

[Hastings]

From what I've heard from some programs, the basic curriculum is basically (no pun intended) retaught in the begining....is there truth to this?

Unofficially, yes.

But only because you have these Basics coming in after a year or two in the field remembering nothing of the proper ways to do things.

Thus, more reason to not take that time in between.




Edit: In regards to the comment above, several students in my class didn't have their Basic license (though they had finished the class) until days before the Paramedic final tests.

 

[AlaskaEMT]

I'm in paramedic school right now and came straight from EMT-I without any experience. I'm doing fine because I exert effort and ask questions.

 

[marineman]

Get your basic education especially anatomy/physiology and some other general education such as Psychology and English. Seriously, you will obtain all the experience you will need when you become a Paramedic and think of the time you saved!

R/r 911

I think that's the best advice in the thread. Like I said before with no experience it's still possible to do really well but without A&P it's incredibly difficult to even get by much less do really well. I wish I would have found this site sooner and read that advice before class started, I honestly buckle down for at least 3-4 hours each night reading not only our text book but several other textbooks relating to A&P or pharmacology in order to honestly understand how each body system works and how drugs interact with a particular system. Knowing these things is required for every part of the medic program as everything we do relates somehow to A&P and or pharmacology.

The experience on the other hand is just that experience on the rig taking vitals and histories. I don't know what the average is or if there's a national standard but we do over 650 hours of field work during the program in addition to classes so I have faith that I'll be able to take a history and BP.

 

[KEVD18]

Unofficially, yes.

But only because you have these Basics coming in after a year or two in the field remembering nothing of the proper ways to do things.

Thus, more reason to not take that time in between.




Edit: In regards to the comment above, several students in my class didn't have their Basic license (though they had finished the class) until days before the Paramedic final tests.

and since there two side to ever story:

they also repeat a lot of the information to make sure that people who have never actually used these skills are appropriately trained.

 

[Hastings]

and since there two side to ever story:

they also repeat a lot of the information to make sure that people who have never actually used these skills are appropriately trained.

Not so in this case. Any Basics that had not worked in the field were fresh graduates of the Basic program at this same school, and as such, the instructors were very familiar with what the students knew. The issue were those who were not fresh graduates.

 

[Sasha]

Not so in this case. Any Basics that had not worked in the field were fresh graduates of the Basic program at this same school, and as such, the instructors were very familiar with what the students knew. The issue were those who were not fresh graduates.

Same here.

Im a strong believer in the fact you are either a good Medic or you arent. You can learn the basics on how to be a medic in school, but if you are a good medic or a bad medic, that cant be learned. That is just skill and personality. And no amount of experience as a basic will change that.