HEMS crash on X-Mas. Sick of posting this news.

FiremanMike

EMS Coordinator
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Don't get me started about MSP and safety. A lot of the changes they made weren’t their initial ideas (like two pilots) and they have cost the state taxpayers an astronomical amount of money to provide a sub-par service as far as medicine capabilities go. The same people who drool over a fleet of 139’s large enough to service Texas are also the same people who complain about taxes in MD. Instead of blaming the real issues that caused the Dauphin sized hole in the ground they decided to use that tragedy as a segway to get new overly expensive aircraft. I lost a good friend in that crash and the amount of ill-informed MSP bootlickers in the MD fire and EMS system is appalling. Even all the new people in the Aviation Command don’t know what they don’t know because they’re pumped up to think they’re the biggest and the best. That just isn’t so now a days, it isn’t the 70’s and 80’s anymore. MSP is a huge political machine with a seemingly unlimited budget. They also don’t operate under part 135 ops, so are completely different and not really relatable to this discussion in that aspect.
Do you still need to be a trooper with enough seniority to bid the next available open spot?

I think working for a state based HEMS program would be nice, but not at the cost of falling asleep in the freeway turnaround for 10 years..
 

CANMAN

Forum Asst. Chief
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Do you still need to be a trooper with enough seniority to bid the next available open spot?

I think working for a state based HEMS program would be nice, but not at the cost of falling asleep in the freeway turnaround for 10 years..
Still need to be a trooper yes, no wait list currently though. They're hurting for people and sucking people right off of field training into Aviation now, despite a lot of the providers not being super experienced.
 

PotatoMedic

Has no idea what I'm doing.
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Still need to be a trooper yes, no wait list currently though. They're hurting for people and sucking people right off of field training into Aviation now, despite a lot of the providers not being super experienced.
Wonder what would happen if they adequately paid their flight medics?
 

CANMAN

Forum Asst. Chief
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Wonder what would happen if they adequately paid their flight medics?
Their pay has increased and it's like 56K now once you make it to the flight line, plus the car which is worth something, but they have decreased their starting pay while in the academy to 35K for the first six months. I don't know many people (second income or not) that can make that work well and live in this state.

IMO they just aren't a premier service to work for anymore, and I think their safety culture is lacking. They provide standard MD protocol medicine with the addition of RSI. That is all. Private HEMS programs in the area do scene work into VA, have a much higher scope of practice and capabilities, and you can make double the salary. Thus why I work private HEMS. You really have to want to be a trooper, endure a 26 week live in academy, and be willing to work for fairly lower wages to work for them. With more and more people going to nursing school and an increasing paramedic shortage, especially paramedics that also WANT to be police officers and jump through a Marine style academy, it's fairly easy to see why they are becoming increasingly desperate for medics. They have taken people who have been medics for less then a year and put them on a Baltimore City medic units for some ride time, and then toss them onto the A/C.

IMO the absolute best thing they could do for their program and their patient's is hire some civilian paramedics who have a critical care background to augment their clinical capabilities, and keep one Trooper on the aircraft for LE missions, but that will never happen. They have too much pride, think they're the greatest, look down on the field providers in the state, and in recent years my field interactions with them have been filled with nothing but cockiness and superior attitudes. They simply don't know what they don't know and I think they truly believe they are still a premier HEMS program.

A few years ago I oriented one of their guys to a part-time position at my old program. Nice guy and had been with them for years/disagreed with a lot of the changes over the years. One of the things he lead with when we started dipping into vent management was "we are getting vents on the aircraft at work" to which I replied "I think that is a horrible idea". He kinda balked at my reply, which was was based on the fact that 10 minutes earlier he could explain zero to me about minute ventilation. What it was, how to calculate, etc. But their "Maryland's Finest". I digress, I am going to go take my B/P now 😆.
 

FiremanMike

EMS Coordinator
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Their pay has increased and it's like 56K now once you make it to the flight line, plus the car which is worth something, but they have decreased their starting pay while in the academy to 35K for the first six months. I don't know many people (second income or not) that can make that work well and live in this state.
But it increases with the rest of the trooper pay scales, right?

IMO they just aren't a premier service to work for anymore, and I think their safety culture is lacking. They provide standard MD protocol medicine with the addition of RSI. That is all. Private HEMS programs in the area do scene work into VA, have a much higher scope of practice and capabilities, and you can make double the salary. Thus why I work private HEMS. You really have to want to be a trooper, endure a 26 week live in academy, and be willing to work for fairly lower wages to work for them. With more and more people going to nursing school and an increasing paramedic shortage, especially paramedics that also WANT to be police officers and jump through a Marine style academy, it's fairly easy to see why they are becoming increasingly desperate for medics. They have taken people who have been medics for less then a year and put them on a Baltimore City medic units for some ride time, and then toss them onto the A/C.
Well that's silly about the lack of experience.. I'm reading on their website that they're alone in the back of the aircraft? Thats.. hmm..


A few years ago I oriented one of their guys to a part-time position at my old program. Nice guy and had been with them for years/disagreed with a lot of the changes over the years. One of the things he lead with when we started dipping into vent management was "we are getting vents on the aircraft at work" to which I replied "I think that is a horrible idea". He kinda balked at my reply, which was was based on the fact that 10 minutes earlier he could explain zero to me about minute ventilation. What it was, how to calculate, etc. But their "Maryland's Finest". I digress, I am going to go take my B/P now 😆.
I mean.. that's a bit nitpicky... Vents are something you need to be inside of every day.. I've only been out of critical care for 5 years and I can't remember how to do much beyond tidal volume based on IBW (which I'd need an app to remember), rate, and o2.. I was well trained when I got hired on how to use it and then monitored for several months to ensure I knew what I was doing.. I'd have to hope that a new piece of critical equipment like that would receive the same level of training..

But I don't work in Maryland, you know the system better than I.. I'm just sharing my "gut" on how things SHOULD be..
 

CANMAN

Forum Asst. Chief
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Trooper pay range is 50k-91k, increasing all the way to 101k if you make "master trooper".. Not sure if there's a flight medic in the USA making more than that..
Sure there is. I know a flight medic in my program who’s been there since 1984 and easily does 120 without overtime. Hospital based program.
 

CANMAN

Forum Asst. Chief
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But it increases with the rest of the trooper pay scales, right?
It does, those steps are yearly, if funded by the state.
Well that's silly about the lack of experience.. I'm reading on their website that they're alone in the back of the aircraft? Thats.. hmm..
They now have two providers in the back, both who are troopers and sometimes both are medics, other times it’s a medic and an EMT/trooper who is in medic school for example. The primary person who is always a medic is their “Crew Chief” and the secondary provider is called the “Rescue Tech”.
 

Peak

ED/Prehospital Registered Nurse
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I've only been out of critical care for 5 years and I can't remember how to do much beyond tidal volume based on IBW (which I'd need an app to remember), rate, and o2.. I was well trained when I got hired on how to use it and then monitored for several months to ensure I knew what I was doing.. I'd have to hope that a new piece of critical equipment like that would receive the same level of training..
So much this. I feel like ventilators are something that are massively underappreciated in how complex there management really is, especially for complex patients. I would say that I understood the theory of ventilation pretty well as a medic, a bit better as an ED nurse, but I never really appreciated how much of a impact seemingly subtle changes can make until I started working in the unit.

I thought I was the hot s*** because we had a vent on our bus (and to my knowledge no other 911 bus in the county did), only later did I really understand how limited that vent was and how complex respiration and ventilation really is.
 

CANMAN

Forum Asst. Chief
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Wow! Flight medics in this area are about half of that on the top end..
100-120 doesn’t go far with MD/DC/NOVA cost of living man. I made more then that last year and ain’t driving the Porsche I want lol. You want a decent crib in a good school district you’re gonna pay.
 

FiremanMike

EMS Coordinator
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100-120 doesn’t go far with MD/DC/NOVA cost of living man. I made more then that last year and ain’t driving the Porsche I want lol. You want a decent crib in a good school district you’re gonna pay.
My kids are about to graduate from high school, and I’d be ok with a rural home...

Man you kinda got me thinking about this... I’m already a sworn officer with some experience there and a lot of EMS experience, I’d have to imagine I’d be a pretty solid candidate..
 

CANMAN

Forum Asst. Chief
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My kids are about to graduate from high school, and I’d be ok with a rural home...

Man you kinda got me thinking about this... I’m already a sworn officer with some experience there and a lot of EMS experience, I’d have to imagine I’d be a pretty solid candidate..
PM me if you want to chat further, I went through their process and academy thinking it was what I wanted to do back in 05. You could def get hired if that’s what you want to do. There’s no laterals everyone does the academy regardless of previous LE experience but you would be a shoe in.
 

akflightmedic

Forum Deputy Chief
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Yeh. I made 100k+ flying in Alaska and that was 20004-2006.

Then flew for another outfit which provided my housing and paid over 65k+.

The troopers don’t have the market locked up wage wise.
 

VFlutter

Flight Nurse
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We recently had a MSP Pilot troll on our base Facebook page commenting about how great their program is and giving us "constructive criticism" on how he felt we should do things. Entertaining
 

Tigger

Dodges Pucks
Community Leader
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Perhaps, but they wouldn't be flying if the company had not accepted the flight - the company shoulders the blame for these crashes. I understand there are more dynamics at play here, but I do not care. Perhaps my shutting them down comment is a knee-jerk reaction, but that seems like what needs to happen, at least a temporary safety stand down so the investigators can go in and do their thing.
To me, two crashes in one month puts this company on the X list regardless of the cause. Anyone who would work for them is putting themselves in danger. Fool me once...
I don't disagree. I'm just more curious about how the operation actually works when you have what amounts utility aviation company flying the plane. Here we have nothing like that, the pilot and clinical staff are all together all the time it seems.
 

FiremanMike

EMS Coordinator
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Man, I wish flight pay was like that around here..

Although, as I think I've mentioned before, I'm stuck in my pension system for 6 years and 7 days..
 

GMCmedic

Forum Asst. Chief
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I didnt make 100, but I made 75 in my first full year flying. Thats a pretty comfortable wage in Indiana.
 

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