Have a labor law question

[Ridryder911]

The FSLA has to have your information, however; will not reveal it to your employer. (as well, whistle blower act, your employer would not want to cause you problems)

Talk to them and see what they have to say.

R/r 911

 

[BossyCow]

Your employer is doing no wrong. If you are being paid while on duty and it is consistant with either FLSA or the railway labor act, then that's the end of that conversation. You are not entitled to extra pay for "losing" lunch. Whether you eat or not has no relevance on the federal labor laws, sorry. As others have said, welcome to EMS!

Actually that depends on the state. In our state, the employer is required to give you a half hour minimum for a meal break after 5 hours of work. If that break is not given, you are paid for it extra but it does not count as overtime. I would recommend reading your contract and employee manual. It should give you the information you need to base your claim.

 

[JJR512]

Actually that depends on the state. In our state, the employer is required to give you a half hour minimum for a meal break after 5 hours of work. If that break is not given, you are paid for it extra but it does not count as overtime. I would recommend reading your contract and employee manual. It should give you the information you need to base your claim.

From what I could tell from the bit of CA law I linked to previously, it's the same in CA. If the break isn't given, you get paid extra. If you don't get a 30 minute break, the employer is supposed to pay you for an extra hour, if I read and recall correctly. That time does not count toward "hours worked".

I'm going to have a labor issue with a previous employer. Not about breaks, but about overtime. My previous employer calculated overtime based on hours worked over 80 during a two-week pay period. This means you could work 50 hours one week and 30 the second and get no overtime. Someone at my new job heard about that and said that's wrong, so I looked into it, and sure enough, the state law says overtime is to be calculated on a 40-hours-in-one-week basis. There are many exceptions of various kinds for various types of workers, but none of them, as far as I can tell, apply to EMS workers. I plan to consult an attorney to confirm my previous employer is in fact in the wrong, and if they are, I plan to ask for my overtime to be recalculated and paid accordingly.

 

[ASTMedic]

I found this in Calif law but not sure if it applies to us.

If an employer fails to provide an employee a meal period in accordance with an applicable IWC Order, the employer must pay one additional hour of pay at the employee’s regular rate of pay for each workday that the meal period is not provided. IWC Orders and Labor Code Section 226.7 This additional hour is not counted as hours worked for purposes of overtime calculations.

An "on duty" meal period shall be permitted only when the nature of the work prevents an employee from being relieved of all duty and when by written agreement between the employer and employee an on-the-job paid meal period is agreed to. The written agreement must state that the employee may, in writing, revoke the agreement at any time.

I dont remember signing anything.

I know firefighters are exempt from some of the labor laws but are we on the ambulance and if so what are they?

 

[Ridryder911]

I know firefighters are exempt from some of the labor laws but are we on the ambulance and if so what are they?

Yes, we are. Again, check wage and labor board. There are multiple versions for EMS, dependent upon working hours, population, etc..

R/r 911

 

[ASTMedic]

I've looked all over and don't see anything that applies to just EMS. The do talk about OT on a 10hr shift but that is all I see. I was looking at www.dol.ca.gov i think, under transportation. Nothing states if EMS is exempt from the laws stated. Should I be getting paid an hour on top of being paid for not taking a lunch?

 

[ASTMedic]

One other question:

We are forced to stay on duty till there are enough units to cover the area but they will give out transfers to the point where we are stuck getting 911 calls and getting off 2 hours late. I know we cant leave the public without EMS but at what point do they have to get us off shift.

 

[Ridryder911]

I've looked all over and don't see anything that applies to just EMS. The do talk about OT on a 10hr shift but that is all I see. I was looking at www.dol.ca.gov i think, under transportation. Nothing states if EMS is exempt from the laws stated. Should I be getting paid an hour on top of being paid for not taking a lunch?

You won't see all the laws pertaining EMS and many other professions. For example, at one time I was a D.J. and they do not have to pay overtime unless the town is >125,000 people. Silly yes, but apparently a "glitch" in the system.

If you are really serious about getting information, then contact the officials, rather than attempting to get the basics on your own. One still has to file a complaint to proceed, unless the administration is willing to take on face value, (which I doubt).

R/r 911

 

[fit4duty]

Buddy of mine used to work for AMR and they had worked in specific lunch and meal periods into their contract language. The practical application was not so fun as some of their idiot supervisors would wake up crews to inform them that it was time for their break. maybe i am in the minority here but i have found that the best ways of getting meals and such done with some kind of regularity was to make friends in the comm center, or always carry something with you. With the outfit i work for now, i have been able to keep a fairly regular eating pattern, because of those two things. A cooler in the ride and a microwave in the ER is all i need to get through. Its ok not to clear right away. i have always delivered much better service on a full tummy

And for what is worth my very first job was as an E was with a small private that paid us 18hrs (the up time) 0600-0000 and then only paid us for 'up time' when we took a call after midnight getting at least 2hrs if we were canceled. They eventually changed it, there was no law suit as far as i knew but back then i was just a wide-eyed pion

 

[ASTMedic]

A cooler in the ride and a microwave in the ER is all i need to get through. Its ok not to clear right away. i have always delivered much better service on a full tummy

Thats what I do now. Only problem with that is we are available for code 3 five min after we arrive at the ER. Unless we have a code or need to decon but we have to advise them of those needs.

Management has no concern about anything but the money and thats it. One of my friends ran a call the other day for a man down. Long story short he was hypotensive and dying but refusing care and had a DRN. The family was there so my buddy was trying to calm them and answer questions. The whole time the on call supervisor was calling and harassing the crew telling them to clear scene because it was not their job to help the family.

So you get an idea how easy it would be to take a few min to eat lunch.

Oh and I also have a call into the DLSE.

 

[MMiz]

Back when I worked as an EMT I'd grab lunch and eat it when I had time. I always assumed it was illegal, but it was EMS.

Now that I'm a teacher I get 9 minutes for lunch. I'm guessing it's legal because we only work from 7:45-3:30. I want them to find a day that I arrive as late as 7:45 and leave as early as 3:30. One day... one day.

 

[JJR512]

Management has no concern about anything but the money and thats it. One of my friends ran a call the other day for a man down. Long story short he was hypotensive and dying but refusing care and had a DRN. The family was there so my buddy was trying to calm them and answer questions. The whole time the on call supervisor was calling and harassing the crew telling them to clear scene because it was not their job to help the family.

Funny you should mention an example like that. Just today I was reading my Geriatric EMS text book, a section about how to deal with a dying patient (some good advice in there that applies to all patients, geriatric or not). It specifically mentions that in this situation (a dying Pt. w/ DNR), the EMS provider should help the family by keeping them calm and answering their questions.

 

[ASTMedic]

Funny you should mention an example like that. Just today I was reading my Geriatric EMS text book, a section about how to deal with a dying patient (some good advice in there that applies to all patients, geriatric or not). It specifically mentions that in this situation (a dying Pt. w/ DNR), the EMS provider should help the family by keeping them calm and answering their questions.

Gee and that's what he was doing but these :censored: loose all heart as soon as they get supervisor.

So back to the legal issue.(Sorry this might be long) First I want to thank everyone for their input. Ridyder, thanks for pointing me in the right direction.:beerchug:

I called the DLSE and spoke with them and they say that since we work a 12hr shift we should be getting 2 30min meal breaks and if not then we should be getting an extra hour. We can wave one but that looks like it. I called two different offices just to get two different views on the law (both were kinda shaky) and they both couldn't see anyway that EMS is exempt. We're only exempt when it comes to OT.

One other thing that caught my eye while reading over laws was about getting off shift. We are currently stuck there till they say its ok to go. Could be an hour or two till we get off but I saw some laws that show regulations on relief from duty. So I'm going to call tomorrow/today to see what they say.

So now how should I go forward? Should I file with the DLSE alone or should I get a lawyer too?? I found a good lawyer that used to be a FF/Medic thats in the area. I just want to make this as airtight as possible.

 

[OreoThief]

Try to think about things from an employer's point of view. It can almost be compared to mass casualty triage..... it just one of those things that has to be done, and it's not fun, but it is necessary.

 

[scottcole]

On Duty Meal Periods

Did you folks ever get an answer to the question of the legality of working through your meal or rest breaks? I am an employment attorney and am happy to address any further questions through this forum you have. This is not and ad for our services, just an offer to answer questions.

 

[EMSLaw]

Generally speaking, if you are an hourly employee, and are not paid for lunch, and you do not get the opportunity to eat lunch, then you should be paid for that as work time.

Wal-Mart recently settled a huge wage-and-hour lawsuit over similar allegations. Essentially, your employer does not have the right to simply deduct a half-hour from your paycheck on days when you can't actually eat. If they want you to be available for your entire shift, then they should pay you for your entire shift. If they want you to take a 30 minute meal break, then they should schedule that.

Important disclaimer - This isn't legal advice, and labor law is often quite nuanced, especially here where you're going to be at the intersection of state and federal labor laws. Since it's totally out of my field, I would suggest that you talk to someone who deals with wage-and-hour issues. If your company is reasonably large and makes this a policy, you might find an attorney willing to take the case on a contingency basis. The downside of these sorts of cases is that the recovery is often too small to justify the time, though I believe that certain statutes may provide for fee-shifting, treble-damages, and the like. Again, something you'd need to consult with an attorney in your jurisdiction about.

 

[EMSLaw]

Did you folks ever get an answer to the question of the legality of working through your meal or rest breaks? I am an employment attorney and am happy to address any further questions through this forum you have. This is not and ad for our services, just an offer to answer questions.

Speaking of someone who has more expertise than me...

Now, when you have a case involving civil rights and constitutional law, then feel free to give me a call.

 

[ditchdoctor1984]

Spoiled Brat

First of all, you should be thankful you have a job re-re. If you feel the need to stir the pot, go ahead, but remember there are always consequences when you do so, and you may not like the changes that come. You envision yourself enjoying a leisurely lunch for an hour each day and maybe having 2-3 breaks in between. If I were your employer, my first move would be to terminate each of you, and then rehire all of you as "independent contractors" and just pay a straight salary and provide you with a 1099 form at the end of the year. No benefits, no retirement, no overtime, no meals or breaks, just straight pay.

I remember a large urban system that taught its employees a lesson. They won an FLSA suit for overtime and got big checks. It was rumored they would lose their 24/48 shift due to the suit, but the medics said "they dont have enough of us to staff 12 hour shifts, so it will never happen". The county put them on 3 "13" hour shifts consequetively, and cut the number of trucks up after midnight by about a 30-40%. Imagine a one hour commute each way, 13 hours of work if you got off on-time, and then you had to come back and do it again the next day.

They have this real cool invention called a "cooler". This invention allows you to store food and snacks in a portable container that will fit in your ambulance, thereby allowing you to eat whenever you find the time, or on the way to calls if you cant find the time. Walmart sells them in the sporting goods section.

P.S. When you shut down all of your trucks for an hour between 11-1p, and you have more calls than you do ambulances, then what do you do ?

 

[EMSLaw]

Calling someone an indendent contractor doesn't make it so. And the sort of retaliation you're talking about leads to further long, drawn-out, acrimonious lawsuits.

The alternative way to look at the situation is that your employer has an obligation to pay you what you earn, and you deserve a day's pay for a day's work.