Hats off to volunteers

[FFMedic1911]

When I started reading this board I had never heard of volunteer ems.I am from Eastern Ky where there are some of the pooriest areas in the country and all of our services are paid.So it really surprises me that an area can't afford paid staff.So I would like to say hats off to you guys and gals that do this for free.You deserve respect.

 

[KEVD18]

a vast majority of volunteers deserve all the respect and admiration that can be sent their way.

the problem come from the one that don't deserve it. there are people out there that treat ems as a game. they figure they can get lights and a siren and go screwing around town. they don't actually care about the medicine. they don't do anything to further their education. they don't learn extra skills . they do the bare minimum to get the "glory" and proceed to treat this like a game. that's what offends the career guys. the career guys are the ones that are always striving to be better. the ones that have accepted that ems isn't a game, but a career that requires discipline, education, commitment.

lots of vollie departments aren't run like professional organizations. they are run like a club where, if you show up to a few meetings, you get indoc'd into the club. three or four hundred stickers on the vehicle; a light in every place and a squad t shirt for every outfit.

i have nothing but respect for professional vollies. i have nothing but contempt for unprofessional whackers.

[/off drunken soapbox]

 

[MtJerry]

As a volunteer in a very rural part of Montana, I thank you.

I joined this site to learn from others and continue the educational process. I have been a bit turned off at times by the bashing.

Thank was refreshing. Again, thank you.

 

[Hastings]

There are the good volunteer services that are part of an organized organization, that take it seriously, show up to scenes in a uniform of some sorts, that are properly trained...

Then there are the ones that put lights on their dirty pickup trucks and speed recklessly through lights, arriving on scene in dirty street clothes (granted, not clothes I'd even wear casually), smoking a cigarette, standing around talking to the others, making inappropriate comments and practicing redneck medicine.

Sadly, the second is the one a lot of people know.

 

[daedalus]

You know, im not going to try and start a debate here, but I was browsing firehouse and saw something that really set me off. A guy posted a thread asking which O2 bag he should buy. He had just gotten his EMT card and wanted to volunteer at a local dept. He had also purchased a "BLS bag" (whats a BLS bag? medicine is medicine.) This bag contained, I swear, the most redundant list of supplies I had ever seen in my life. He wanted a O2 bottle and AED as well.

This was a game to him. He obtained the minimum level of training required, and went out and must have spent 500 to a grand in medical supplies, and wanted to deck up his car and respond to scenes in it. Whats a single O2 tank going to do for you? What is the medical gas used for? He probably could not tell you. Someone had called him out on his "over doing it" and he started to get that typical attitude, we have all seen it before "I did not post here to be insulted so why dont you guys just lay off okay? If I want to have a BLS bag, than I will". It was the ignorance that bothered me the most. I was so defeated I wanted to shred my own EMT card. I am working hard in college to advance my education and become a real provider, and this knock job thinks he is a medical provider with his BLS bag and O2 and 110 hours of training. I will never live anywhere there is a "vollie" EMS system. I even hate the word "vollie". I will be a professional, educated, sharp, and paid paramedic committed to always bettering my knowledge base. Little can be said the same for "Vollies" who get a AHA card and a first aid cert and run around town with lights and sirens thinking they are making an ounce of difference in the outcomes for discharged patients. I venture to think patients might be discharged in better condition without EMT level care, and just being driven to the hospital.

 

[daedalus]

There are the good volunteer services that are part of an organized organization, that take it seriously, show up to scenes in a uniform of some sorts, that are properly trained...

Then there are the ones that put lights on their dirty pickup trucks and speed recklessly through lights, arriving on scene in dirty street clothes (granted, not clothes I'd even wear casually), smoking a cigarette, standing around talking to the others, making inappropriate comments and practicing redneck medicine.

Sadly, the second is the one a lot of people know.

I think the former type of system is very rare. I do salute those who volunteer professionally, such as doctors without borders, or cadaver dog workers, etc.

 

[Hastings]

I think the former type of system is very rare. I do salute those who volunteer professionally, such as doctors without borders, or cadaver dog workers, etc.

I'm lucky as to have a great volunteer system in my area, as I've described in the past. All are volunteering members of the hospital or city EMS agency, they have set hours, a uniform, paid by the call, proper medical supplies and vehicles, etc, etc.

 

[TheAfterAffect]

You know, im not going to try and start a debate here, but I was browsing firehouse and saw something that really set me off. A guy posted a thread asking which O2 bag he should buy. He had just gotten his EMT card and wanted to volunteer at a local dept. He had also purchased a "BLS bag" (whats a BLS bag? medicine is medicine.) This bag contained, I swear, the most redundant list of supplies I had ever seen in my life. He wanted a O2 bottle and AED as well.

This was a game to him. He obtained the minimum level of training required, and went out and must have spent 500 to a grand in medical supplies, and wanted to deck up his car and respond to scenes in it. Whats a single O2 tank going to do for you? What is the medical gas used for? He probably could not tell you. Someone had called him out on his "over doing it" and he started to get that typical attitude, we have all seen it before "I did not post here to be insulted so why dont you guys just lay off okay? If I want to have a BLS bag, than I will". It was the ignorance that bothered me the most. I was so defeated I wanted to shred my own EMT card. I am working hard in college to advance my education and become a real provider, and this knock job thinks he is a medical provider with his BLS bag and O2 and 110 hours of training. I will never live anywhere there is a "vollie" EMS system. I even hate the word "vollie". I will be a professional, educated, sharp, and paid paramedic committed to always bettering my knowledge base. Little can be said the same for "Vollies" who get a AHA card and a first aid cert and run around town with lights and sirens thinking they are making an ounce of difference in the outcomes for discharged patients. I venture to think patients might be discharged in better condition without EMT level care, and just being driven to the hospital.

Alright, I understand your "anger" at some of these whackers that are out there and are just in it for a while. But hell, DO NOT group ALL Vollies in with them. I am a Vollie and a Paid EMT and I'm telling you straight up, all the Volunteer Agencies that I've been to, have friends at, And Seen work are a Thousand Times more professional then 80 Percent of the Paid Ambulance Companies in NJ.

Granted you are entitled to your opinion, But please take SOME respect for Volunteers. Hell, You came onto a Thread directed at Volunteer EMS Agencies and essentially bashed them to hell. Maybe you should take a trip out to Jersey, I Know I would LOVE to show to you that your statements are completely and utterly simple and close minded.

My squad will shatter your beliefs of what you think all Volunteer Agencies are like, as will alot of Vollie agencies. EVERYWHERE You go you will have whackers, Even paid agencies, EVEN PARAMEDICS.

And just to further disprove your theory, Yes, Im a whacker. I have Blue Lights on my car, No I do not speed, Run Traffic Lights, Have a Siren, etc. I use them as an Identifier, If people move out of my way, I give them a wave, and continue on my way. As for the stickers, I have 3 on my car in total. My Old High Schools Logo, my DoD Military Base Access Stickers, and a NJ PBA Supporter one. Eventually ill throw my FD and EMS Squad up there, But im in no rush.

Yes, I have a "BLS Bag" In my car, Why? Because I am out driving a lot on the Highway traveling the state to attend different CAP functions (Civil Air Patrol, ANOTHER Volunteer Agency that is supported by the USAF that i am a part of). Every once in a while I do come upon car crashes that have just happened, or no Medical Providers are at yet. I pull over, and see what help I can offer. If the officer on scene says Im not needed, I continue on my way. No, I dont carry O2, but I see no problem in having it. Same with an AED, If cops carry them in their cars why can't I? Its just precautionary, Im not going to go speeding around town, answering everything on my scanner and strapping them up to the AED.

As for being a "Sharp, professional, Paid Paramedic", You are essentially saying all Volunteers are Unprofessional and vagabonds. I am sharp, I conduct myself in a very professional manner that has been taught to me through my parents and my life, that just carries over into my job. I present myself as a knowledgeable person, But I do not question the activities of others without there being a good reason.

I can not comprehend your reason for hating us Vollies. Were you denied at your local Volunteer Agency? When you were a child did the Volunteers not answer a call that you thought was very important (Though they were probably at an equally important call unbeknown to you.)?

You can PM me if you wish, as A flame war is not needed here. But I take what you said to heart and want to understand why your avidly degrading EMS as a whole by talking bad about your brethren.

 

[daedalus]

No PM is need, AfterAffect. I admire what you do. However, I need to support the family I am planning on having soon. I cannot do that making 12 bucks an hour as a paramedic. Professionals charge for their services, and those who do not lower the bar for everybody else.

I did not bash your department, I bashed a post from another forum and an attitude I find prevalent in volunteers. I come to EMS being medicine oriented, from a family of doctors and nurses, and I look forward to each CCT call I go on so my nurse can explain new drips and patient conditions to me. I look forward to helping people using medicine, and I look forward to living comfortably while doing so.

 

[daedalus]

I was not denied at my local vollie agency. There is not a vollie agency anywhere near me. AMR runs ALS ambulances and my fire department is an all hazard fully paid career department that has hundreds of applicants from all over california for each opening. Check out amrventura.com and ventura county fire department on google. I am a career EMT. I volunteer some of my time to the local public health department, however.

 

[Flight-LP]

Professionalism not only involves a presentation and positive attitude, it also requires self respect and pride. If you do not respect yourself enough in this profession, then you truly cannot call yourself a professional. As Daedalus stated, professionals charge for their services. Hobbyists do it for free. The number one reason why pay in this industry is so low is because there will always be someone willing to do it for less, if not free. Many volunteers are blinded by traditionalism. Unfortunately with the changes of society and socialistic beliefs, tradition has fell to the wayside. Medicine cannot afford to become a tradition, it needs to stay fresh and everchanging to keep up with the advances of the world and society. The traditional "I am here for my community" volunteer will eventually fold, especially if the economy continues to tank.

Honestly, I cannot understand why anyone gives their services away for free. If you are proficient at what you do and have pride in your work, why not earn some money doing it???

Volunteers have my admiration for their dedicated belief, but I do not and will not hold high respect for them as they taint the economic ability of our paid providers busting their tails trying to earn a living.

FFMedic1911 - You sir are my newest friend!!!! You have dispproved, first hand, the myth that poor rural environments cannot afford a decent EMS service (in most cases, Bossy is the only person I know of who has a remote justification). I and many others who argue this point with ignorant non-believers thank you!

"I am from Eastern Ky where there are some of the pooriest areas in the country and all of our services are paid.So it really surprises me that an area can't afford paid staff."

 

[csly27]

hmmmm, Not All volunteers are wack jobs, many are mabey but not all, Where I live there is not a volunteer ems per say, but we have cert. I volunteer with them and I love it. I have learned alot, met some great amazing people. It was through cert that I decided to enter ems. I am currently taking classes for my EMT-B and will be finished with that in jan.
After that I want to join the fire acadamy then off to paramedic school. So I am very new to to the ems world. I also think that volunteering is so important to be able to go out and help your community when they need it most. I know that it does not pay the bills, however for me it has beeen a great stepping stone to get me where I want to be. If only some volunteers were not in it only for the glory it would be a the greatest ever.

It is what it is I guess. I am also new to this site and so far I love it to be able to come here and get info and advice has been a great experience, so thanks to everyone that will listen to me ramble.

 

[ffemt8978]

(in most cases, Bossy is the only person I know of who has a remote justification). I and many others who argue this point with ignorant non-believers thank you!

Hey...I feel left out. 1500 legal residents covering 240 sq. miles, and an hour to a McDonalds or a hospital in any direction. Nearest ALS is 30 minutes away if we're driving towards each other, and medevac is 35 minutes. Do I qualify?

 

[KEVD18]

the standard anti vollie defamation league rhetoric at its best.

nauseating to say the least...

 

[daedalus]

the standard anti vollie defamation league rhetoric at its best.

nauseating to say the least...

how do you mean

 

[Hal9000]

a vast majority of volunteers deserve all the respect and admiration that can be sent their way.

the problem come from the one that don't deserve it. there are people out there that treat ems as a game. they figure they can get lights and a siren and go screwing around town. they don't actually care about the medicine. they don't do anything to further their education. they don't learn extra skills . they do the bare minimum to get the "glory" and proceed to treat this like a game. that's what offends the career guys. the career guys are the ones that are always striving to be better. the ones that have accepted that ems isn't a game, but a career that requires discipline, education, commitment.

lots of vollie departments aren't run like professional organizations. they are run like a club where, if you show up to a few meetings, you get indoc'd into the club. three or four hundred stickers on the vehicle; a light in every place and a squad t shirt for every outfit.

i have nothing but respect for professional vollies. i have nothing but contempt for unprofessional whackers.

[/off drunken soapbox]

I happen to volunteer on one service when I have time and am in the town. A recent class of students has three that are brand new EMTs that should not treat ANYONE. One of them is quite bad: I've caught him making up vitals, telling me that A-fib and 1st degree r intraventricular block are NSR, and many other things. One of the local CRNAs told me to be careful because he's a loose canon. I'm inclined to agree. I also found out that he used to do heroin and he's currently dating a girl who graduated from high school 3 years ago. He's 46, fat, bald, and he lives off of welfare and...his girlfriend. He claims that he was in Vietnam as a Navy Seal, but also that he was in the marines, and that he was an aircraft mechanic. To top it off, he sometimes goes on about how he's married (He's not.), how he had three years of premed (Don't think so; he's claimed that a Klonopin was a Percocet on an OD patient, even when I told him otherwise, and then told the nurse at the ED the same thing.), and how he has kids (He doesn't and can't.). I'm concerned. He's lied to my face and I think he's a glory seeker. He's also tried to delay transports to smoke. Amazingly, the members on the particular service want to keep giving him chances. He's done some things involving biohazard materials that I don't want to mention in a public forum, but that would absolutely cause the service to be disbanded. He's also tried to run lights and sirens through town for a lift assist with no injury.

I'm young, but I don't trust the guy and I don't really know how to document what he's done wrong. Oh, and I should mention that I just found out that he didn't actually even pass his NREMT exam. So he's really just an observer.

Of course, he's not the worst of the three. h34r: Their patient care is the worst thing, even though their personalities are bad, too.

Ok, enough whining from me.

Sorry, had to get that off my chest.

 

[Ridryder911]

Okay.. time to stop the Battle Hymn of Republic, brighten the lights. Let's get a real and clear look, okay? Let's quit patting ourselves on the back for doing such a great job.

Sure, I know of some great volunteer squads. Yes, they are the best.. but most are either manned by off duty or directed by professional medics. In reality, is a vollie squad really a vollie squad if it is really just off duty medics, performing their job?

Also, you can thank Volunteer EMS companies for restricting the growth of EMS and the education. The Montana & Idaho studies, and many other volunteer studies and special interest groups vollies continue to push to lower education requirements so that it is in their best interest, not the patients.

Sure, not all are alike that. Yet, the group (the mass numbers) are the ones that continues (along with IAFC) want to restrict education requirements for EMS.

So for those that do a job because there is NOBODY else, I thank you and honor you. For those that do it in a community that could have a Professional EMS, that could provide quick, professional service, I am not impressed and believe you are the demise of EMS.

R/r 911

 

[Hal9000]

Forgive me for not mentioning this, too, but I know some excellent vollie services, some which happen to have people that are earning their money in the field (Usually commuting.) but still volunteering as EMTs because they want to help. On the same service with the wankers, there is a career paramedic and a career respiratory therapist, both great friends of mine. Unfortunately, the service can be a bit like a social club when certain people are around, which lowers its level of professionalism. I've mentioned that volunteers should treat the job professionally, but some members counter that with "but then people won't volunteer." Having those members not volunteer would probably be better for the patient, really.

Ok, that was another rant, but there are MANY volunteers out there who volunteer out of the goodness of their hearts and want only to help people.

For the record, I have a now retired vest with some simple stuff in my car (4x4s, gauze, etc.) because, in Montana, I've been first on scene by accident before when the closest medical support of any kind was over 30 minutes away. Rural areas have it different. (Marauding deer are actually not much of a problem.)

 

[KEVD18]

its the same argument on both sides over and over and over again.

"why give away what you can sell"
"just because i don't get paid doesn't mean I'm not professional"
"i need to carry a full ambulances worth of stuff so i can save the day at an accident scene"
"if you don't wear a pressed shirt and polished boot to every call, your a bad emt"
"i don't operate my vehicle improperly when i have my lights on"
etc etc etc etc etc

this argument never changes. obviously, there are some squared away volunteers. but they are in the minority. the nauseating part of the argument for me is the blind bs rhetoric spouted off by the obvious whackers.

 

[Sasha]

Volunteer squads are not my favorite, as stated many times before here:

Paid EMS staff is going to be paid very poorly as long as there are people willing to do it for free.