God, Buddha, Shiva, Allah, Flying Spaghetti Monster, Jesus, Vishnu And Your Patient

[fma08]

These debates are pointless, they all lead back to the same question of where did *insert either god or matter/energy here* come from? A question that neither side can provide a logical, rational theory that can be proven to be true.

 

[ResTech]

Thank's for the Love, Sasha...

 

[Shishkabob]

My theory isn't based on the Bible. My theory is based solely on logical thinking.


Science says God can't exist because that would be someone popping out of nothing, but then can't explain how the big bang theory happened, or how matter happened in the first place. It's an argument of convenience.


I believe in God. I'm not overly religious. There are just so many things that science alone can not explain, no matter how hard they try. It's way too much of a coincidence to think that an explosion happened, and life just appeared, all in perfect harmony, in perfect design.

 

[ResTech]

it's way too much of a coincidence to think that an explosion happened, and life just appeared, all in perfect harmony, in perfect design.

****** exactly! *******

 

[fma08]

My theory isn't based on the Bible. My theory is based solely on logical thinking.


Science says God can't exist because that would be someone popping out of nothing, but then can't explain how the big bang theory happened, or how matter happened in the first place. It's an argument of convenience.


I believe in God. I'm not overly religious. There are just so many things that science alone can not explain, no matter how hard they try. It's way too much of a coincidence to think that an explosion happened, and life just appeared, all in perfect harmony, in perfect design.

Actually the theory of the big bang is explained in string theory/m theory.

 

[Shishkabob]

"Explained" doesn't matter. It's still just a theory, and a theory that holds little water at that. Again, science contridicts itself. Where did the matter, the same matter that exist throughout billions of lightyears of space today, come in to existence in the first place to HAVE that explosion?

And how did the explosion occur without a catalyst?

 

[Maya]

Well, I don't really expect people to watch this, as it's a 10 minute clip, but this is an *intro* to M-Theory, a controversial subject in quantum physics. It hasn't been proven yet, but that's what they're trying to do with the Large Hadron Collider -- they will be able to create a universe in a laboratory, essentially.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOkAagw6iug

This video is a very rough intro, and doesn't explain everything clearly, because it is a complicated subject and I don't feel that I could condense into a short forum post, myself. The show, itself, is very interesting though and I highly recommend looking it up if you find the topics in the short video interesting.

M-Theory attempts to explain what happened before, during, and after the Big Bang.

I'm not trying to convince anybody. I just think it's interesting. I really don't think non-believers and believers can change one anothers minds.

 

[fma08]

"Explained" doesn't matter. It's still just a theory, and a theory that holds little water at that. Again, science contridicts itself. Where did the matter, the same matter that exist throughout billions of lightyears of space today, come in to existence in the first place to HAVE that explosion?

And how did the explosion occur without a catalyst?

Not all reactions need a catalyst. And the matter came from the energy produced from 2 membranes colliding with each other. It's only holding little water since there is no current way to prove or disprove it. There's no way to prove or disprove the bible either. So again I say, these debates are pointless.

 

[fma08]

Well, I don't really expect people to watch this, as it's a 10 minute clip, but this is an *intro* to M-Theory, a controversial subject in quantum physics. It hasn't been proven yet, but that's what they're trying to do with the Large Hadron Collider -- they will be able to create a universe in a laboratory, essentially.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOkAagw6iug

This video is a very rough intro, and doesn't explain everything clearly, because it is a complicated subject and I don't feel that I could condense into a short forum post, myself. The show, itself, is very interesting though and I highly recommend looking it up if you find the topics in the short video interesting.

M-Theory attempts to explain what happened before, during, and after the Big Bang.

I'm not trying to convince anybody. I just think it's interesting. I really don't think non-believers and believers can change one anothers minds.

Go onto the PBS website and look up "The Elegant Universe", you can watch it online there. 3 Hours long, but quite interesting.

 

[Maya]

Cool, thanks! Um, I think we're gonna get shut down soon.. It was a really interesting discussion though

 

[HotelCo]

Yep. Because people can't stay on topic and discuss the original question.

 

[Shishkabob]

Screw it, I'm making the 12th dimension: The Donut Theory.


Before time, there were 2 super tiny groups of what I like to call, Donuts. These donuts are made up of millions of trillions of 2-dimensional objects, all positive in charge.

These "Donuts" never collided, like other theories. Instead, they "rolled" away from each other so fast that they tore a hole in "black matter"


And the universe began.

 

[Momof7]

So you'd rather believe in a magical higher power than a rational, explained and tangible answer? You would rather believe in that than chance? Just think of it as a lotto. One in a million but the circumstances were right.

Where did he/she/it come from? What were they doing before, and how did they get established?

She is not talking about a MAGICAL Higher power. She is talking about God. The Bible says "In the beginning God created". Pretty much black and white if you ask me, but then you would have to believe what the Bible says is true in order to to believe or even care. God have always been there according to this verse.

 

[fma08]

Screw it, I'm making the 12th dimension: The Donut Theory.


Before time, there were 2 super tiny groups of what I like to call, Donuts. These donuts are made up of millions of trillions of 2-dimensional objects, all positive in charge.

These "Donuts" never collided, like other theories. Instead, they "rolled" away from each other so fast that they tore a hole in "black matter"


And the universe began.

Got the math to back it up?

 

[Shishkabob]

Got the math to back it up?

1 + 1 x 1 = 4

 

[fma08]

Yep, this thread is done with. The sarcasm is setting in.

 

[Shishkabob]

Nope, just proving a point: That you can't prove crap when it comes to this, using math and theories with no actual evidence other then the same repeated, and un-proven 'evidence'.



^_^

 

[emtbill]

Do you believe patient's faith plays a major part in their prognosis? Do you feel that religious or spiritual patients generally have a better outcome or are more at peace with a poor prognosis? Why or why not?

Exactly. And aethist have yet to prove a thing.


Just because you don't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Here's something I wrote recently for a religion class in response to a C.S. Lewis (a prominent christian apologetic) clip that touches on what a lot of you are talking about:

We may consider that Jesus was simply mistaken in making his divine claims, or more likely that his words were exaggerated in scripture. So is it all a hoax? Jesus was not the first, and definitely not the last person charismatic enough to believe obvious falsehoods. This is covered extensively in The God Who Wasn't There. We have numerous examples of exaggeration occurring in the Old Testament. Furthermore, the gospels were written some forty years after Jesus' death, which is a significant amount of time for these events to be skewed. When we consider that the Jews in Palestine were actively searching for a Messiah, the argument for the exacerbation of Jesus is enhanced.

Another possibility entirely is that Jesus was a composite figure used by early Christians to promote their religion. Jesus is, after all, quite similar to other religious leaders. When we consider that elements of Christianity are found in other contemporary religions it does seem plausible that Jesus was a mere myth used by early Christians to sew together a sect. Either way, the pillars used by Lewis in his argument are sketchy at best. Lewis is trying to argue psychologically; he's quite the sophist!

So where does this put us? I believe Lewis' description of religion as a myth is adequate. There are simply too many unknowns in scripture. As it exists today the Bible has been glued together from many authors whose claims directly contradict each other in certain places. We know that large parts of the gospels and in some cases entire books (Judas, for example) were left out entirely! Lewis touches on this in the video clip. He says that Christianity isn’t any more likely than any of the other religious myths, but that it was the only one that came true in Jesus (I have already elaborated on why this is unlikely above). Without missing a beat though, Mrs. Gresham tells him this is cerebral thinking! Is it wrong of Lewis to think this way? Don’t theists act on faith, a blind belief in the unknown? In a way, this cries to Lewis’ atheist roots in questioning divinity.

Remember that in a way, we are all atheists. The word atheist comes from the Greek theos (θεός) literally meaning “without god”, but nonspecific to which god. Everyone is an atheist with respect to other religion’s gods, such as the ancient Greek gods on mount Olympus. Mrs. Gresham touches on this when she tells Lewis that these gods are wacky. Let me give you another example. Do you believe in unicorns or the flying spaghetti monster? You might say that you don’t know, but that’s not the question. We don’t know if they exist or not, but you can still believe is they do or do not exist without knowing for sure, but do you know regardless of your knowledge? Most people would say no, and that would be an atheist response. You can say that you can’t know if these things exist but it’s evident you don’t believe in them. The argument for God is equally irrational, but Christians seem to believe that one God exists from the plethora of gods, although it falls to the same logic as unicorns described above. Atheists simply take this thought process a step further, and say that no gods exist, which is the most logical outcome. I think Lewis realizes this and it is mirrored in the film clip, as he seems quite timid of his beliefs having just reconverted to Christianity.

 

[emtbill]

Sasha... so you read the Bible and found out for yourselve that the Bible contradicts itself? Or is that just what your Atheist friends have told you?

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

 

[fma08]

Nope, just proving a point: That you can't prove crap when it comes to this, using math and theories with no actual evidence other then the same repeated, and un-proven 'evidence'.



^_^

Like I said earlier