Generational Gaps

[jgmedic]

I wouldn't want anyone volunteering me for calls either, esp BS IFT's. Just know if you're with him, not a bonus day. FTO's should still answer your questions even when you're cleared from training. So it sounds like this guy is just your division problem child. He'll get his.

 

[SandpitMedic]

 

[Qulevrius]

[emoji1][emoji112]

Is that your version of “Bye, Felicia” ?

 

[DragonClaw]

Is that your version of “Bye, Felicia” ?

Maybe it's "Okay zoomer"

 

[luke_31]

I wouldn't want anyone volunteering me for calls either, esp BS IFT's. Just know if you're with him, not a bonus day. FTO's should still answer your questions even when you're cleared from training. So it sounds like this guy is just your division problem child. He'll get his.

@DragonClaw. This right here is really good advice. We’ve all been with people who don’t make the job easy and sometimes the best option isn’t to do anything at all. Just sit back and finish the shift and hope that you don’t get paired with them again too soon.

 

[DragonClaw]

@DragonClaw. This right here is really good advice. We’ve all been with people who don’t make the job easy and sometimes the best option isn’t to do anything at all. Just sit back and finish the shift and hope that you don’t get paired with them again too soon.

And let his laziness stop me from doing my job the best I can? It seems like... admitting defeat

That when you get to a hard choice or disagreements, you give in because it's easier than fighting to do what is right.

I've had to get adamant with nurses sometimes about being a pt advocate. And it's sad when you know you leave, the staff probably isn't going to care about them anymore.

When they firmly grasp you hand and look you in the eye and give you a genuine thank you for the short time they were your pt. It's worth it.

I don't regret taking the dementia lady's hand that had a lobster grip. Yeah that hurt, but she just wanted someone to hold onto and she was scared.

Do what's right, you know? It's hard to just callous myself into not caring and I don't think I should.

 

[SandpitMedic]

Is that your version of “Bye, Felicia” ?

That’s my smile and wave, dudes.
I’m not wasting my time on this anymore. Dragon will learn the hard way in due time when no one wants to work with her.

 

[DragonClaw]

That’s my smile and wave, dudes.
I’m not wasting my time on this anymore. Dragon will learn the hard way in due time when no one wants to work with her.

Funny. Most nights I pick up a shift I get a solid handshake a look in the eye and a "Good working with you"

My partner and I get along well so far.

Hmm

 

[VentMonkey]

Funny. Most nights I pick up a shift I get a solid handshake a look in the eye and a "Good working with you"

My partner and I get along well so far.

Hmm

I mean, the dude is a mid-level provider who’s a former flight paramedic, has been on this forum longer than I, and is generally helpful to people on here.

With due respect, you seem like you might be a bit of a narcissist. We all get it, you worked with a dilhole. Get over it.

For thee last time, can we please move on from your personal strife. I’m not saying the occasional venting isn’t warranted, but stay on track, ya?

 

[jgmedic]

And let his laziness stop me from doing my job the best I can? It seems like... admitting defeat

That when you get to a hard choice or disagreements, you give in because it's easier than fighting to do what is right.

I've had to get adamant with nurses sometimes about being a pt advocate. And it's sad when you know you leave, the staff probably isn't going to care about them anymore.

When they firmly grasp you hand and look you in the eye and give you a genuine thank you for the short time they were your pt. It's worth it.

I don't regret taking the dementia lady's hand that had a lobster grip. Yeah that hurt, but she just wanted someone to hold onto and she was scared.

Do what's right, you know? It's hard to just callous myself into not caring and I don't think I should.

I literally never said you shouldn't advocate for your patients. I have done and still do the things you said you did for the past fifteen years because that's the type of medic and person I want to be. Just like you I've worked with partners that shouldnt be on the box anymore. His laziness shouldn't stop you from being a good provider. Just learn to pick your battles. In fact I would wager the BS that EMT-I put you through is a bigger issue than your medic.

 

[DragonClaw]

I mean, the dude is a mid-level provider who’s a former flight paramedic, has been on this forum longer than I, and is generally helpful to people on here.

With due respect, you seem like you might be a bit of a narcissist. We all get it, you worked with a dilhole. Get over it.

For thee last time, can we please move on from your personal strife. I’m not saying the occasional venting isn’t warranted, but stay on track, ya?

Not to get smart, but isn't this a prime example of the topic?

I feel pushed aside and invalidated. Some people here would rather believe I've exaggerated than what I said is true.

I'm not saying he doesn't have his side, but much of what I said was direct observation or quoting him.

But it can't be him, it's me.

That seems to be a theme and that is something to note. Not because I'll have an epiphany and realize I'm wrong, but many people just refuse to take me seriously or at face value.

It's very common for me as a younger person to be ignored by those that are older. When I've been standing or waiting in line, waited to be seated at a restaurant or anything. I get passed over.

"Next person", and they look over me, past me, and gesture to someone behind me to move up.

The level of disrespect is high and frequent. So yeah, I'm a little irked that those among my profession take that same attitude. They forgo a professional demeanor for a partiality in favor of someone obviously unfit for the job.

 

[DragonClaw]

I literally never said you shouldn't advocate for your patients. I have done and still do the things you said you did for the past fifteen years because that's the type of medic and person I want to be. Just like you I've worked with partners that shouldnt be on the box anymore. His laziness shouldn't stop you from being a good provider. Just learn to pick your battles. In fact I would wager the BS that EMT-I put you through is a bigger issue than your medic.

And if the pt really did need more rapid transport? I don't trust the guy to make the decision that's best for the pt.

And yeah , even with all his apathy, I'm still going to pull my weight and his.

The EMTI actually snapped a nurse because the nurse said she needed to be comforted, that she was a sensitive pt that needed reassurance. She intimidated the nurse. I saw it in her eyes.

She scoffed "*I don't do comforting*"

Me: "What's wrong with taking care of your pt?"

She rolled her eyes "That's what *you're* for. You'll learn eventually"

You might be right about who is worse.

 

[VentMonkey]

I was honestly looking more for generalizations about the differences in generations and how it plays into all of us in the field. Good. Bad. Indifferent.

But you’re right about one thing, no one can—nor will—convince some people that they are sometimes, in fact, wrong.

Or worse, that they can still stand to grow from their own behaviors. It epitomizing stagnation.

I do like the upbringing theory shared by many in this thread. I don’t think it was my generation that taught me to think before I speak. To try and keep an open mind. Nah, that was all dad.

I’m sure several generations before and after have since, and will continue to experience this—good parenting.

We all have good and bad days, weeks, months, years. I’ve worked with the dilhole, and been the dilhole. Am I proud of that? No, but if I wasn’t the slightest bit introspective I could not possibly admit this.

People like that can teach us what we shouldn’t be, and oftentimes we end up that way before we know it, unintentionally. Heck, it taught me.

FWIW, generations aren’t all that important to me in the workplace.

And I typically make it a habit to give whatever EMT I may work with on occasion one of those little helicopter pins people seem to bug about pending their demeanor and ethics at the end of our shifts. It’s all unbeknownst to them and is also my way of showing mutual respect.

Maybe that is a generational thing.

 

[FiremanMike]

Not to get smart, but isn't this a prime example of the topic?

I feel pushed aside and invalidated. Some people here would rather believe I've exaggerated than what I said is true.

I'm not saying he doesn't have his side, but much of what I said was direct observation or quoting him.

But it can't be him, it's me.

That seems to be a theme and that is something to note. Not because I'll have an epiphany and realize I'm wrong, but many people just refuse to take me seriously or at face value.

It's very common for me as a younger person to be ignored by those that are older. When I've been standing or waiting in line, waited to be seated at a restaurant or anything. I get passed over.

"Next person", and they look over me, past me, and gesture to someone behind me to move up.

The level of disrespect is high and frequent. So yeah, I'm a little irked that those among my profession take that same attitude. They forgo a professional demeanor for a partiality in favor of someone obviously unfit for the job.

Enough with the woe is me, earlier in the thread you said this guy refused to take more than 2 calls, later in the thread you clarified that he just “threatened“ everyone if they tried to jump extra calls.. Would you not consider that exaggeration? I already said I’ve seen these drama shows play out hundreds of times, and this one is already starting to unravel exactly the same as way as they do every single time..

Everyone in this thread has been through what you're talking about. Many of us have been on both sides of that story. People are trying to express to you have to navigate that from their own personal experience. You are rejecting that insight because you think your situation is unique, and you really need to fully grasp that it's not.

Tell you what, every response you get is met with a “no you’re wrong and I’m right because...” from you.. So why don’t you just tell us what answer you want from us so we can satiate your desire to be righteous in your scenario and we can move on..

 

[DrParasite]

Not to get smart, but isn't this a prime example of the topic?

I feel pushed aside and invalidated. Some people here would rather believe I've exaggerated than what I said is true.

I'm not saying he doesn't have his side, but much of what I said was direct observation or quoting him.

But it can't be him, it's me.

That seems to be a theme and that is something to note. Not because I'll have an epiphany and realize I'm wrong, but many people just refuse to take me seriously or at face value.

It's very common for me as a younger person to be ignored by those that are older. When I've been standing or waiting in line, waited to be seated at a restaurant or anything. I get passed over.

"Next person", and they look over me, past me, and gesture to someone behind me to move up.

The level of disrespect is high and frequent. So yeah, I'm a little irked that those among my profession take that same attitude. They forgo a professional demeanor for a partiality in favor of someone obviously unfit for the job.

If @DragonClaw was in her 60s, with 20 years of experience, would you still be blowing her off? What if she was in her 60s, and just retired from a long career in the military, and this was her retirement job..... would you still think she need to sit down and shut up?

Listen, I'm not saying she's right or wrong, but you can't deny that because of her age and because she belongs to a certain generation, her perspective is being either ignored completely or told she's wrong.

Maybe she's a a whiny EMT, who doesn't realize what she doesn't know.... or maybe she is bright eyed and bushy tailed, and wants to be the best provider she can, and was stuck with a ****ty paramedic and EMT-I, who took offense to her positive attitude and wanted to "put her in her place," so she would end up as bitter as they are. Who knows, who cares.

But the response.... is a typically generational gap response, where the older generation blows off the younger generation, because what do they know......

 

[VentMonkey]

Like I said, I am referring to generalizations, not one specific person. @DrParasite, did I (or anyone) really say “sit down and shut up”?...

Also, yes, regardless of their age and experience, and as stated earlier no one wants to have to deal with an approach where it feels like in spite of your best efforts to help them, said person tramples right over your advice—they asked for—to continue to prove their points, however validated or invalidated that they might feel.

That’s not a generational thing, that’s a tolerance thing. And yeah, I remember you pointing that out earlier, but doesn’t tolerance work both ways?

 

[FiremanMike]

If @DragonClaw was in her 60s, with 20 years of experience, would you still be blowing her off? What if she was in her 60s, and just retired from a long career in the military, and this was her retirement job..... would you still think she need to sit down and shut up?

Listen, I'm not saying she's right or wrong, but you can't deny that because of her age and because she belongs to a certain generation, her perspective is being either ignored completely or told she's wrong.

Maybe she's a a whiny EMT, who doesn't realize what she doesn't know.... or maybe she is bright eyed and bushy tailed, and wants to be the best provider she can, and was stuck with a ****ty paramedic and EMT-I, who took offense to her positive attitude and wanted to "put her in her place," so she would end up as bitter as they are. Who knows, who cares.

But the response.... is a typically generational gap response, where the older generation blows off the younger generation, because what do they know......

Yes, I would, and have. I have watched these things play out.. While old guys don’t typically complain that older guys treat them like crap for being young, they complain about the other things like “such and such is a piece of crap” and “such and such never stocks the truck” or “I’m done jumping runs for such and such because they never jump runs for me”.

It’s all the same just with different flavors..

 

[DrParasite]

Like I said, I am referring to generalizations, not one specific person. @DrParasite, did I (or anyone) really say “sit down and shut up”?...

not in those words.... what was said was:

remember that you have two eyes, two ears, and one mouth. Use the former more than the latter.

I’ll reiterate on what I’ve already told you - learn to read others and talk less.

both references to talking less.....

Also, yes, regardless of their age and experience, and as stated earlier no one wants to have to deal with an approach where it feels like in spite of your best efforts to help them, said person tramples right over your advice—they asked for—to continue to prove their points, however validated or invalidated that they might feel.

How about this: recognize that her points may be valid, her partners were jerks, and say once they retire or quit, don't do what they did for the next generation?

Yes you and others finally said something along those lines, but not after completely blowing her off, and several people telling her she needed to talk less. I don't think that same would have been said if she was older or had more time in EMS.

 

[VentMonkey]

I don't think that same would have been said if she was older or had more time in EMS.

Or if the history or theme of most of the posts by @DragonClaw did not warrant such a reply.

I’m not trying to hide or deny imperfections brought about by any age gaps, simply trying to understand them.

Having a daughter who will officially be a teen this year herself was enough to pique my curiosity and begin this discussion thread.

Clearly there’s disconnect. Emotions get involved, and then it becomes personal.
That does nothing for the masses. And that is why I finally replied the way that I did. I speak for me here, no one else.

From what I’ve seen here, most of it has been attempts to help that have all but been thwarted by ego alone.

Again, nothing new to this generation, or even to a person’s youth, but at some point the youth we’ve all once had gives way to a choice in life. And yes, that choice is inevitably theirs to make.

But continuing to showcase how someone feels validated has never done much (IMO) for them in the long run in terms of making them a mature, well-adjusted adult that I can think of. Instant gratification? Yes. Long-term value? Eh, that point I’d argue.

For the record, I am not discounting anyone’s opinions or personal experiences as invalid.

Nor do I, or do I think any good-natured person on this forum doesn’t have the best intentions in helping the new people here along.

Sometimes they just can’t help themselves, but lack of humility is not the solution.

 

[DragonClaw]

Enough with the woe is me, earlier in the thread you said this guy refused to take more than 2 calls, later in the thread you clarified that he just “threatened“ everyone if they tried to jump extra calls.. Would you not consider that exaggeration? I already said I’ve seen these drama shows play out hundreds of times, and this one is already starting to unravel exactly the same as way as they do every single time..

Everyone in this thread has been through what you're talking about. Many of us have been on both sides of that story. People are trying to express to you have to navigate that from their own personal experience. You are rejecting that insight because you think your situation is unique, and you really need to fully grasp that it's not.

Tell you what, every response you get is met with a “no you’re wrong and I’m right because...” from you.. So why don’t you just tell us what answer you want from us so we can satiate your desire to be righteous in your scenario and we can move on..

Woe is me?

No. Woe is you.

I'm 23 and plan to be a first responder for a good long time. So when you act like this and refuse to listen, refuse to teach, and have the "be seen and not heard" approach, it's only hurting you.

You'll get young partners that are lazy and demoralized. You'll get apathetic partners who are tired of being beaten down. You'll have providers leaving at a record rate muttering under their breath "EMS eats its own". You'll get people that don't care about quality pt care. Maybe you'll get a partner so uncaring and reckless they don't care if they die.

And you reap what you sow.

And honestly, I'm not going to sit down and take it. I'm going to do what I think is best and not let things "ruin" what I've got going. Ohhh nooo, the lackluster employee's actions were reported.

Something about that bother you? Might you be upset because you feel like if I was at your company I'd report you? I wouldn't if the right thing was done and there was good pt care. Ball is in your court after that.

Well, he quite loudly announced his intention to beat people who tried to bonus and it was petty shocking. So no. Do you really expect for me to fit every detail in one post and never refer to it with new information? Is there some one way door for a new post?

It's not an exaggeration.

You don't believe me because you have the "I've seen it all" so it can't be true.

Next time try, '

Because I'm what? Too new for my ears to work or my eyes to see? That I must be making this stuff up.

Because it's unique? No. Why do y'all have an obsession with claiming so many people are chasing uniqueness?

Maybe what I was *kinda gave up*, looking for was some human decency. Respect from provider to provider. Legitimate advice on how to handle a not great partner.

Instead I get pooped on for being a terrible EMT who did this that or the other. Oh no, I checked with a sup on an unclear policy. I really did it this time. I should give up my patch and go home.

The answer isn't a string of words but there approach. And I quickly started to have to dodge what was said, it turned very quickly.

*You still refuse to believe me*

So, no. I don't need anything from you.

The fact you even ask me what I'm looking for means you're so far past the point you've jumped on the bandwagon headed for the hills. Every single one of you who accused without proof is on it.

You're in no position to stop me from doing my job, so your negativity and sit down and shut up approach isn't going to work. Maybe that worked with your kids, but it won't on me. And until you see me as an adult that contributes to society and an EMT in my own right, one that actually cares, then we'll never see eye to eye. I can't bend my neck up that high and I refuse to.

Like I said, I am referring to generalizations, not one specific person. @DrParasite, did I (or anyone) really say “sit down and shut up”?...

Also, yes, regardless of their age and experience, and as stated earlier no one wants to have to deal with an approach where it feels like in spite of your best efforts to help them, said person tramples right over your advice—they asked for—to continue to prove their points, however validated or invalidated that they might feel.

That’s not a generational thing, that’s a tolerance thing. And yeah, I remember you pointing that out earlier, but doesn’t tolerance work both ways?

Advice generally means you have their best interest in mind. And blowing my concerns off isn't my best interest.

If you think I'm clashing with the culture of EMS. Good. It's either a rotten culture or a great one. And this? Not great.

I like to leave a place better than I left it. Leave something for the next generation, yeah? Something I'm proud of. And this isn't it.

So again, I'm not going to "fall in line" to someone who is like that. My supervisors have been pretty good and understanding. One of them was furious about the unsecured equipment he left. Tens of thousands of dollars in equipment, narcs, other drugs. Anyone could have grabbed it if they were quick or noticed we didn't lock it.

That's a dangeous thing to leave unsecured.

If me continuing to speak tramples your points, that means only silence could keep them "true". And if they can't stand anything I continue to say, it wasn't really great advice, was it?

Tolerance. I've continued to stand my ground politely and adamantly refuse to accept that certain actions are unacceptable, regardless of who makes them.

But y'all doubled down on "tolerance". "You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means"

Yes, I would, and have. I have watched these things play out.. While old guys don’t typically complain that older guys treat them like crap for being young, they complain about the other things like “such and such is a piece of crap” and “such and such never stocks the truck” or “I’m done jumping runs for such and such because they never jump runs for me”.

It’s all the same just with different flavors..

I had legitimate complaints about how he treated his partner. And yeah, didn't even want to put gas in the truck or properly secure equipment as was mentioned earlier. But what, you didn't see it?