Firesurfer75
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...the blank after the athiest book quote, that is. lol
Faith / Is there a place for God in EMS?
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...the blank after the athiest book quote, that is. lol
akflightmedic
Forum Deputy Chief
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I am quoting here from memory, so wording may not be exct and I will cite the source later.
Once there was a Native Eskimo with a missionary in his village. The Eskimo said to the missionary, "Would I have been condemed to hell for eternity had you NOT ever told me of jesus,god,chrisitanity?" The missionary said "Of course not, there is no way for you to have ever known".
The Eskimo then said sadly "WHY, why did you ever tell me of this then?"
Once there was a Native Eskimo with a missionary in his village. The Eskimo said to the missionary, "Would I have been condemed to hell for eternity had you NOT ever told me of jesus,god,chrisitanity?" The missionary said "Of course not, there is no way for you to have ever known".
The Eskimo then said sadly "WHY, why did you ever tell me of this then?"
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Being Jewish, my father's solution was to point to the Mezuzah on the front door frame and politely say "we're already taken".
Please don't. OK?
daedalus
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Faith
For those of us who are active in a religious faith, how do you reconcile it with what you see everyday and your knowledge of what the human body is? I find myself in a current state of non belief and I feel like I would be better off finding faith again. Its difficult knowing that the brain is just a very intricate network of interconnected neurons wherein consciousness arises from shear complexity of the network.
For those of us who are active in a religious faith, how do you reconcile it with what you see everyday and your knowledge of what the human body is? I find myself in a current state of non belief and I feel like I would be better off finding faith again. Its difficult knowing that the brain is just a very intricate network of interconnected neurons wherein consciousness arises from shear complexity of the network.
Ridryder911
EMS Guru
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Actually, it confirms my faith even more. The human body is so amazing! Each part is dependent on another, a fine working machine. Not only that a machine that repairs itself!
As hard as man has attempted to manufacture, repair the parts.. still nothing is as better as the original. I find that ironic as much time and money is spent on medicine.
About the time, I start having doubts I will see an interesting case that disproves any scientific finding and logic. Again, a reality check with who is really in charge.
R/r 911
As hard as man has attempted to manufacture, repair the parts.. still nothing is as better as the original. I find that ironic as much time and money is spent on medicine.
About the time, I start having doubts I will see an interesting case that disproves any scientific finding and logic. Again, a reality check with who is really in charge.
R/r 911
firetender
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There was another thread up here where there was a link to a very elaborate encyclopedia of pix of individuals who had done themselves in. At first, I was really reluctant to view it, having been out of the field for 20+ years and not so sure if my stomach could take it anymore.
But I did, and surprisingly, it shocked me back to my overall experience with death and life and the space in between: We are not our bodies.
I had many moments where life slipped out of my hands and went somewhere. Where? I don't know. But do I have to know to have faith? I don't even think "faith" is a part of it. I've seen it. I've seen the spark of a human being not extinguish, but go somewhere. Have you not sensed this?
We are taught, as Flesh Technicians, to not look at such stuff, but we all do. I commend you for bringing this up, for there are few questions in our field as important to our own relationship with life.
Even while working up a pulseless and apneic patient who never made it back, inexplicably, I knew when the presence left the area and I was working on a cadaver.
I was raised strict Catholic and went on to try to un-learn everything I was taught so there'd be space for a God more personal to my life to come in. At first it was a bit maddening to not have a structure to hold my searches but when I started working in the back of ambulances my experiences led me into the Great Mystery: I really don't have to know or understand the details, but there is Something much greater than me and we are inextricably linked.
Let me suggest that you allow yourself to be open to "seeing" how, as a medic, you are being "used" to effect good. How, no one else in the Universe could supply that special thing that you bring to the situation that moves death into, or back into, life.
Then, focus on learning how to move with that force no matter what philosophical, religious or spiritual framework you put it in.
Feel free to check in with me privately. I'll be happy to explore more with you.
But I did, and surprisingly, it shocked me back to my overall experience with death and life and the space in between: We are not our bodies.
I had many moments where life slipped out of my hands and went somewhere. Where? I don't know. But do I have to know to have faith? I don't even think "faith" is a part of it. I've seen it. I've seen the spark of a human being not extinguish, but go somewhere. Have you not sensed this?
We are taught, as Flesh Technicians, to not look at such stuff, but we all do. I commend you for bringing this up, for there are few questions in our field as important to our own relationship with life.
Even while working up a pulseless and apneic patient who never made it back, inexplicably, I knew when the presence left the area and I was working on a cadaver.
I was raised strict Catholic and went on to try to un-learn everything I was taught so there'd be space for a God more personal to my life to come in. At first it was a bit maddening to not have a structure to hold my searches but when I started working in the back of ambulances my experiences led me into the Great Mystery: I really don't have to know or understand the details, but there is Something much greater than me and we are inextricably linked.
Let me suggest that you allow yourself to be open to "seeing" how, as a medic, you are being "used" to effect good. How, no one else in the Universe could supply that special thing that you bring to the situation that moves death into, or back into, life.
Then, focus on learning how to move with that force no matter what philosophical, religious or spiritual framework you put it in.
Feel free to check in with me privately. I'll be happy to explore more with you.
firecoins
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I bring a different standpoint on faith. Atheism and skepticism appeal to me. I am unable to reconcile religious belief with what I have learned studying science. And I have obviously chosen science.
scottgsxr97
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Choosing science doesn’t mean you can’t believe in God. I know quite a few people involved in science professions and are very religious. Science is just us trying to reverse engineer what God created. Just because we haven’t figured it out doesn’t mean God doesn’t exists.
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That's what created God's... man's ignorance.
firecoins
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They choose to ignore a lack of physical evidence and believe in faith. Faith is the opposite of what science relies on. I put faith in faith. Many scientists have flat out rejected religion.
No! There is just so much wrong with this statement. First science does not accept any deity of any religion. Second your statment assumes Science is reverse engineering the Judeo/Christian god. Non Judeo/Christian scientists are reverse engineering a god they don't believe in? It just doesn't make sense.
We can go on but this would be locked very quickly.
EMERG2011
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Honestly, I've struggled with my faith for years. One one hand, I believe in science, evolution, and the power of modern medicine. On the other hand, like has been said beforehand, there is something intangible, undetectable, and generally beyond our comprehension in a human. Call it a soul, a chi, katra, whatever - I believe that there is something after all this, and when we lose someone, their body is dead, but a piece of them, and their consceousness, lives on in an elysian afterlife.
Theres a line from Grey's Anatomy (forgive the reference, but it works) in regards to faith, and kinda sums up my general opinion - "I have to believe. To do what I do, and to see what I see, I have to believe that there is something more beyond this life."
Theres a line from Grey's Anatomy (forgive the reference, but it works) in regards to faith, and kinda sums up my general opinion - "I have to believe. To do what I do, and to see what I see, I have to believe that there is something more beyond this life."
Ridryder911
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"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."..Albert Einstein
I have more to comment, but it will have to wait.
R/r 911
I have more to comment, but it will have to wait.
R/r 911
firecoins
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Einstein said:
—W. Hermanns, Einstein and the Poet—In Search of the Cosmic Man (Branden Press, Brookline Village, Mass., 1983), p.132, quoted in Jammer, p.123.
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firetender
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I think our Brother here is offering us a conflict that many of us go through. I don't know that he's looking for arguments on one side or the other of faith vs. mechanics. The struggle for him is the effects the work is having on his faith.
How can we contribute to his finding what he needs? How can we be useful as healers to help him find HIS answers?
I think EMERG2011 identified a jumping off point for the conversation (and EVERYTHING can be a teacher, even the tube): "To do what I do, and to see what I see, I have to believe that there is something more beyond this life."
What gives you the support you need to do what you do, and see what you see? And how could that be of support to Daedalus?
BossyCow
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Daedalus, I found that my biggest problem with faith was my insistance on finding an existing system or group who's tenets I could accept. I was looking for an existing structure that coincided with my personal truths.
I ended up deciding that my faith didn't have to have a name, title, organization, logo or rule book. My faith is constantly evolving as I learn and grow and experience life. Just because it doesn't fit into someone else's mold doesn't mean it isn't faith or isn't valid.
Understand that what you practice as an individual is important because of the importance you give it in your life and your interactions with others. While others are more comfortable with a more fundamentalist, structured environment, they are generally those who's lives are generally more structured as a whole. There's a lot of beliefs out there and I do not believe the human soul is created for the one size fits all belief system.
I ended up deciding that my faith didn't have to have a name, title, organization, logo or rule book. My faith is constantly evolving as I learn and grow and experience life. Just because it doesn't fit into someone else's mold doesn't mean it isn't faith or isn't valid.
Understand that what you practice as an individual is important because of the importance you give it in your life and your interactions with others. While others are more comfortable with a more fundamentalist, structured environment, they are generally those who's lives are generally more structured as a whole. There's a lot of beliefs out there and I do not believe the human soul is created for the one size fits all belief system.
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As Firetender said - this has come up before:
I've actually merged the 2 threads that came up as being related - The original topic was actually about a news story.
We've had some debates on this in the past - but lets look at it again... We've got new members, and a lot of us have changed over the last 2 years... so I'm sure we'll see some changes in positions.
I've actually merged the 2 threads that came up as being related - The original topic was actually about a news story.
We've had some debates on this in the past - but lets look at it again... We've got new members, and a lot of us have changed over the last 2 years... so I'm sure we'll see some changes in positions.
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