cruiseforever
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I read many post about poor wages. What do you consider a fair wage?
Fair Wages?
- Thread starter cruiseforever
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When I graduate as an EMT here in Alberta, I'm looking for about $22 - $25/hour starting. I know EMT-Ps can earn upwards of $35-$45 an hour in Canada, depending on the jurisdiction. If you're willing to work in oil and gas it's even more, with some medics topping six figures.:wacko:
All that said, I know that US medics make quite a bit less, which is unfortunate. :sad:
All that said, I know that US medics make quite a bit less, which is unfortunate. :sad:
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A fair wage is one that allows me to afford to live. That means being able to pay my bills, paying for food, gas... A good wage is one that does all that and allows me to enjoy some of the things I want. The actual wage varies by locale, so... what's good for me here would be great somewhere else and absolute crap wages in some yet another place.
EMSDude54343
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In my area, I think the starting pay for a Basic that is fair should be at least 12.50 and hour and starting for a medic should be at least 17.50 an hour.
TatuICU
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Wow, in this area typical medic salary averages from 9.50-12.00 an hour
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Your medics are getting screwed! I'd laugh at anything below 15! My lowest paying job of three is 18!
Wages in any industry are really region dependant. In some areas of the cost of living is higher, which means higher wages. In others there is a higher/lower demand for trained professionals which also has an impact.
For example, my post above was regarding Alberta, which has an extremely large oil and gas industry with a healthy and steady need for private ambulance services. Oil & gas is willing to pay for those services, which then gets passed down to higher wages. (Generally.)
Someone working in a private service in the Maritimes however, would likely make much less.
NYMedic828
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FDNY pays EMTs $16 starting. Medic is $22 an hour starting.
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Oh yes. That I understand. But a medic making 9 an hour still seems pretty ridiculous. Our cost of living is extremely low here, and the low end of medic pay rates is 14. So 9 seems crazy.
Underoath87
Forum Asst. Chief
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In Florida, anything under $15/hour is not a liveable wage, IMO.
Working full time for ~15K/year is absurd. Good thing I'm only doing this till I get through nursing school...
Working full time for ~15K/year is absurd. Good thing I'm only doing this till I get through nursing school...
EpiEMS
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"Fair" is subjective. Objectively, any wage which somebody takes a job at is "fair."
If Bob and Generic Ambulance agree that Bob will be paid $10 an hour for his EMT job, then that's fair, even if Uptown Ambulance would pay $12 an hour for the same position. Bob agreed to a wage, and since it was mutually agreed upon by both the purchaser of labor and the seller of labor, it's fair.
If Bob and Generic Ambulance agree that Bob will be paid $10 an hour for his EMT job, then that's fair, even if Uptown Ambulance would pay $12 an hour for the same position. Bob agreed to a wage, and since it was mutually agreed upon by both the purchaser of labor and the seller of labor, it's fair.
TatuICU
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Trust me, we know. The extra insult is that 90% of our medics have degrees. At my last job, they did the famous, work for 24 get paid for 16 crap for an even lower wage. People wonder most of us left for nursing school...
TatuICU
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Fairly sure everyone here realizes how a job interview goes. The thread is not dealing in semantics. The thread is dealing in the actual question of are medics paid enough for the job they do. Bob may agree to that wage because its the job that he's offered and he has to take it. That doesn't mean that his pay is commensurate with his job responsibilities.
You're talking semantics. I'm sure what the OP intended to discuss is what wage is adequate for the level of training and experience people in EMS attain, and job conditions they endure.
EpiEMS
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Understood, but it is axiomatic that the market wage is a fair wage.
Whether pay is commensurate with responsibilities is a different matter, surely. Do EMTs and medics make wages that match their duties? Probably not. But the barriers to entry are so low that it's not unreasonable for the wages to be low. Then again, the work is tough, sometimes unpleasant, and often at odd hours, so there is some aspect of a compensating differential present, surely.
Anjel
Forum Angel
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Here in MI basics get any where from 8-10 starting.
Medics 12-15.
I think for a brand new person with no experiance.... The high end of thar scale is fair.
Medics 12-15.
I think for a brand new person with no experiance.... The high end of thar scale is fair.
EpiEMS
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Look at similar (and I'm stretching this word in some of the examples below) professions with similar levels of responsibility. All figures are from http://bls.gov/oes/, part of the US Department of Labor and reflect PAID, not volunteer, workers.
As a group, EMTs and Paramedics have a mean hourly wage of $16.36 (25% to 75%-tile range is $11.74 to $19.44). There are 229,340 employed EMTs and medics in the US. 43% are employed by private agencies, about 30% work for government agencies, and about 17% for hospitals. Mean wages are highest for government agency employees.
Police officers (regular beat cops) have a mean hourly wage of $27.05, with 25th to 75th %-tile range of $19.77 to $33.65. There are 636,410 cops. 85% work for local agencies. Wages are highest for state employed cops.
Firefighters have a mean hourly wage of $22.94, with a range of $15.24 to $28.90. There are 304,080 firefighters.
I could go on with RNs, LVNs, PAs, etc.
EMS has low entry requirements:censored:–:censored:an EMT (EMT-B) needs, on the higher end, say, 180 hours of training. Paramedics have, say, 2000 hours of training (?). Many don't work for government agencies - and don't have the wage and benefits bump that government provides for uniformed workers. EMS is tough, surely, and dangerous, to boot, but doesn't have the cachet that cops and firefighters do.
Police officers have, say, 800 hours of required training. And almost all work for a government agency (hence, many are unionized). Plus, the job is quite dangerous.
Firefighters? I don't know much here, but I'd wager that the large number of volunteers pushes wages down. However, the working environment can be exceedingly dangerous, so I don't know what to say.
RNs, LVNs, etc.? No clue here.
As a group, EMTs and Paramedics have a mean hourly wage of $16.36 (25% to 75%-tile range is $11.74 to $19.44). There are 229,340 employed EMTs and medics in the US. 43% are employed by private agencies, about 30% work for government agencies, and about 17% for hospitals. Mean wages are highest for government agency employees.
Police officers (regular beat cops) have a mean hourly wage of $27.05, with 25th to 75th %-tile range of $19.77 to $33.65. There are 636,410 cops. 85% work for local agencies. Wages are highest for state employed cops.
Firefighters have a mean hourly wage of $22.94, with a range of $15.24 to $28.90. There are 304,080 firefighters.
I could go on with RNs, LVNs, PAs, etc.
EMS has low entry requirements:censored:–:censored:an EMT (EMT-B) needs, on the higher end, say, 180 hours of training. Paramedics have, say, 2000 hours of training (?). Many don't work for government agencies - and don't have the wage and benefits bump that government provides for uniformed workers. EMS is tough, surely, and dangerous, to boot, but doesn't have the cachet that cops and firefighters do.
Police officers have, say, 800 hours of required training. And almost all work for a government agency (hence, many are unionized). Plus, the job is quite dangerous.
Firefighters? I don't know much here, but I'd wager that the large number of volunteers pushes wages down. However, the working environment can be exceedingly dangerous, so I don't know what to say.
RNs, LVNs, etc.? No clue here.
For the privates, as an EMT you're looking at $9/hr to $11/hr starting w/o experience no matter where you go. For medics, it's $19-$20/hr in a metropolitan area, or $13-$16/hr starting in a suburban or rural area. These wages are based on a 40 hr/week schedule. Hospitals can and usually do pay better than privates.
For municipal third service EMS, a 40 hour workweek is rare. It's typically a 56 hour schedule, or less commonly a 48 hour workweek. Salaries are typically advertised by the year, and not as often by the hour. Starting pay for a medic can range from $22k/yr to $30k/yr. Calculate the hourly based on work hours. Medics can start from $32/yr to $38/yr typically. What FDNY EMS offers would be a decent wage if the cost of living wasn't so high. Even if they topped out at $75k/yr you still wouldn't be able to move out of the lower middle class, and certainly never own a house.
Fire based dual role providers can start from as low as third service, but can start as high as $50k/yr as a basic, and $70k/yr as a medic. Some West Coast departments may pay even more.
For reference, with a 56 hour workweek, a $7.50/yr person makes about $25k/yr. a $10/hr person makes about $33k/yr. A $12.50/yr person makes around $41k/yr. A $15/yr person makes around $50k. For 40 hrs a week, a rough estimate is that every $0.50/yr = $1,000/yr (the actual figure is $1,040). So, by working an extended schedule, you're giving up your valuable time, and you're also getting screwed by working OT at a lower rate than you would if you were a 40 hour employee. This is why EMS burns out a lot of people. They need to work additional hours to get ahead financially given the low pay, but they're already typically at 50+ hours/wk before they even look for extra OT, and that OT is at a lower rate than it should be.
For municipal third service EMS, a 40 hour workweek is rare. It's typically a 56 hour schedule, or less commonly a 48 hour workweek. Salaries are typically advertised by the year, and not as often by the hour. Starting pay for a medic can range from $22k/yr to $30k/yr. Calculate the hourly based on work hours. Medics can start from $32/yr to $38/yr typically. What FDNY EMS offers would be a decent wage if the cost of living wasn't so high. Even if they topped out at $75k/yr you still wouldn't be able to move out of the lower middle class, and certainly never own a house.
Fire based dual role providers can start from as low as third service, but can start as high as $50k/yr as a basic, and $70k/yr as a medic. Some West Coast departments may pay even more.
For reference, with a 56 hour workweek, a $7.50/yr person makes about $25k/yr. a $10/hr person makes about $33k/yr. A $12.50/yr person makes around $41k/yr. A $15/yr person makes around $50k. For 40 hrs a week, a rough estimate is that every $0.50/yr = $1,000/yr (the actual figure is $1,040). So, by working an extended schedule, you're giving up your valuable time, and you're also getting screwed by working OT at a lower rate than you would if you were a 40 hour employee. This is why EMS burns out a lot of people. They need to work additional hours to get ahead financially given the low pay, but they're already typically at 50+ hours/wk before they even look for extra OT, and that OT is at a lower rate than it should be.