I use the standard siren (wail) and switch to the two-tone when I approach an intersection. if it's a particularly busy intersection, it's been red for a while, or anything else where I'm there for more than a split second, I'll then switch to the phaser just to make sure I have everyone's attention before moving on. One of our ambulances has a device that shoots bass into the ground (thumper? pounder? I always forget the name) so that cars around you will vibrate and it's so cool I use it whenever I can. I only ever use the airhorn when I want to make extra sure everyone knows I'm around, but I mostly do 911 at night so I try and lay off. I will use the airhorn to ensure that a driver who blazes through an intersection after I've arrived knows that he done f'ed up though.
Exactly when/how to use the siren?
- Thread starter LightItUp98
- Start date
I switch back and forth between wail and yelp quickly when we don't have a dual tone with an airhorn in our unit. It works just as good if not better than an airhorn.
Angel
Paramedic
- 1,201
- 307
- 83
yeeaaa, do not do what is shown in that video. it was over kill. any quite frankly annoying. a simple wail until say 100 ft before an intersection and switching to yelp should be fine. if cars arent moving and youre wailing, pop it to yelp and maybe a couple air horns and if they still arent moving. wait.
all the knob work this person was doing (imo) is more distracting than anything. what was said about lights but no sirens (at least in CA) is true, if you hit someone or vice cersa and dont have sirens you are at fault no questions asked. if you push someone out into an intersection and they hit someone or vice versa, your fault.
if you have lights and sirens and pass on the right and someone hits you? again, your fault. its a lot to take in, the more you do it the better youll get, but as was said. BE SAFE. code 3 driving only saves seconds, and those seconds arent worth a death or injury.
all the knob work this person was doing (imo) is more distracting than anything. what was said about lights but no sirens (at least in CA) is true, if you hit someone or vice cersa and dont have sirens you are at fault no questions asked. if you push someone out into an intersection and they hit someone or vice versa, your fault.
if you have lights and sirens and pass on the right and someone hits you? again, your fault. its a lot to take in, the more you do it the better youll get, but as was said. BE SAFE. code 3 driving only saves seconds, and those seconds arent worth a death or injury.
Nightmare
The FNG
- 22
- 7
- 3
just keep in mind the more you mess with the siren the more you stress out drivers in front of you. people already lose their minds when they see an ambulance coming up behind them running hot, keep it simple, and in my opinion, no horns of any nature unless somebody won't move over. I personally switch between wail and yelp and at intersections i alternate between the two with a short pause. People recognize a change in pitch and frequency and that grabs their attention. I think how i do it is a sort of passive aggressive way and less stressful for other drivers, some of the people i run with disagree so they either suck it up or drive 
oh and stop at intersections, the driver of the video you posted would never ever be at the wheel of my ambulance he will get in an accident...its only a matter of time.
oh and stop at intersections, the driver of the video you posted would never ever be at the wheel of my ambulance he will get in an accident...its only a matter of time.
DrParasite
The fire extinguisher is not just for show
- 6,289
- 2,162
- 113
to reiterate what others say, check your state laws. 1) never pass on the right with your lights and sirens on (as people are supposed to pull to the right, and when you are passing on the right, can you see what can happen) 2) use the "wail" sound when you are driving long distances, and the other tones or airhorn for intersections. look up how far and fast a siren travels, different tones go for different distances 3) consider weather and other obstructions 4) some state laws say if your lights are on, your sirens are on, regardless of time or location 5) don't blow through red lights, stop signs, and always expect people to do the unexpected, and if they crash, you will often be considered at fault 6) if it's gridlock, pushing people into an intersection or off the road doesn't help the situation, and infact endangers everyone
irishboxer384
Forum Captain
- 389
- 196
- 43
Makes me wonder why an in-depth emergency driving course isn't part of the requirements for EMS in the US. Driving is a skill that takes alot of practice/experience/education to be GOOD at, so if someone is behind the wheel of an emergency vehicle it stands to reason they should be better than the average driver.
Is this not something that other states do? You're required to take an EVOC course prior to driving an ambulance in VA.
irishboxer384
Forum Captain
- 389
- 196
- 43
With regards to advanced driving...an 8 hour- 20 hour course doesn't cut it is what I meant, of course what law dictates is 'enough' and what in reality is 'enough' are two v different things. The UK legally required course is 3 weeks of driving at a cost of roughly $2000-4000, it would be good if colleges were able to absorb these costs in the same way UK universities are doing. Just another 'string to the bow' to prove American EMS is a skill worth investing in
DesertMedic66
Forum Troll
- 11,320
- 3,492
- 113
Negative. In CA it is up to the employer of they will provide us with a class or not. Some employers have a couple of day long classes while others have a "don't go too fast, stop at every red light, and don't pass on the right".
medichopeful
Flight RN/Paramedic
- 1,863
- 255
- 83
On the way to an emergency call, I'll use the "normal" siren sound (I have no idea what its official name is). When I'm going through an intersection, I'll slow down or stop to clear the intersection and switch to another, incredibly annoying siren sound (maybe it's called "yelp?" I just cycle through with the "manual" button and then hit the "off" switch to silence it.) Sometimes I'll use the air horn when going through an intersection, other times I won't.
Going to the hospital when the choice is mine, the VAST majority of the time the siren is in the "off" position and the lights are also in the "off" position.
Using lights and sirens is incredibly dangerous and WAY overused. It annoys me to no end to see ambulances coming into the ER with their lights and sirens on for something that doesn't warrant their use. Is using lights and sirens fun? Yes. Are they necessary? Very, very rarely. The sooner you realize this, the better. The less you use them, the safer you'll be.
Remember, in the vast majority of cases, if seconds matter, the patient is not going to survive.
Going to the hospital when the choice is mine, the VAST majority of the time the siren is in the "off" position and the lights are also in the "off" position.
Using lights and sirens is incredibly dangerous and WAY overused. It annoys me to no end to see ambulances coming into the ER with their lights and sirens on for something that doesn't warrant their use. Is using lights and sirens fun? Yes. Are they necessary? Very, very rarely. The sooner you realize this, the better. The less you use them, the safer you'll be.
Remember, in the vast majority of cases, if seconds matter, the patient is not going to survive.
avdrummerboy
Forum Lieutenant
- 156
- 20
- 18
CA state law states "Every authorized emergency vehicle shall be equipped with at least one steady burning red warning lamp visible from at least 1,000 feet to the front of the vehicle to be used as provided in this code. In addition, authorized emergency vehicles may display revolving, flashing, or steady red warning lights to the front, sides or rear of the vehicles." 25252 CVC. That's all that is technically required to go 'code 3' in CA. The rest of the vehicle code is littered with verbiage the likes of 'as may be reasonably necessary' and 'a siren shall not be sounded by an authorized emergency vehicle except when required.' In other words, the use of a siren is as much as discouraged by the CA state vehicle code, and with good reason, the PSA above shows how ineffective the siren can be. So, code 3 in CA is NOT both lights and sirens, it's merely one measly light. Now, if it's busy, I'll absolutely run with both on because IF something were to happen and you end up in court, if they ask if I was going code 3 and if I was using my lights and siren, it looks better to say yes than to have to sit and justify why I didn't have the siren sounding.
That long winded section being said. Siren use, see above, use as little as needed. You'll learn your way of doing things over time, but for me wail, or tone 1 for most of the time, then change the tone to yelp, or tone 2 when going through a red light or stop sign. Air horn as necessary and required for idiot drivers! Once, there is little to no traffic, off goes the whistles and lights only. Another note, ALWAYS at least slow to a crawl if not stop for a red light or stop sign. Can't tell you how many times I would have been killed by a dumba** driver blowing a light or sign had I not slowed or stopped. Here in CA CHP says slow to 15 mph before proceeding, but most companies are going to want a full stop.
That long winded section being said. Siren use, see above, use as little as needed. You'll learn your way of doing things over time, but for me wail, or tone 1 for most of the time, then change the tone to yelp, or tone 2 when going through a red light or stop sign. Air horn as necessary and required for idiot drivers! Once, there is little to no traffic, off goes the whistles and lights only. Another note, ALWAYS at least slow to a crawl if not stop for a red light or stop sign. Can't tell you how many times I would have been killed by a dumba** driver blowing a light or sign had I not slowed or stopped. Here in CA CHP says slow to 15 mph before proceeding, but most companies are going to want a full stop.
gotbeerz001
Forum Deputy Chief
- 1,312
- 926
- 113
If you are in CA and you are equipped with lights and sirens, you had better be using them at the time you are involved in an accident.
The single steady-burn forward-facing red lamp is all that is required by law, but if you have other warning devices, you'd better use em.
In short, you need to do everything in your ability to warn other drivers you are approaching.
Your argument will fail in court.
The single steady-burn forward-facing red lamp is all that is required by law, but if you have other warning devices, you'd better use em.
In short, you need to do everything in your ability to warn other drivers you are approaching.
Your argument will fail in court.
JPINFV
Gadfly
- 12,681
- 197
- 63
The reality is that if you're in an accident while using the exemptions provided under the vehicle code for code 3 operations, you're pretty much screwed anyways.
avdrummerboy
Forum Lieutenant
- 156
- 20
- 18
My argument? All I was saying is that if anything happens, in court you're going to be asked if you were driving code 3? If yes, were you using your lights AND siren? If you answer no to the siren, you'll have a lot of explaining to do as to why not. Better to use it and not really need to than not (within reason of course.)
What exactly are they going to teach me in 3 weeks at a cost of $2,000-4,000 that I can't learn in 16 hours?
Driving is not that difficult.
JPINFV
Gadfly
- 12,681
- 197
- 63
I'd link the "non-ambulance accidents and crashes Compilation" video from just yesterday but YouTube won't let me upload 10,000 hours of footage.
What's your point?
irishboxer384
Forum Captain
- 389
- 196
- 43
A good point from the video would be that driving a non-emergency vehicle safely at speed with all the usual hazards is difficult? If your tools as a medical responder are your equipment, your brain and your vehicle then you should strive to be the best at all 3. 16 hours is nothing, jesus people teach CPR in 6 hour classes which pretty much involves pumping a chest and breathing...
Added to the fact if quality and lengthy training was giving across the US for driving emergency vehicles then he probably wouldn't be asking questions about his sirens.
Ewok Jerky
PA-C
- 1,401
- 738
- 113
I get the joke but you''re calling the kettle black.
Driving in general is dangerous. Driving an ambulance is even more so. It's longer and heavier, top heavy, giant blind spots, you may be distracted by the radio. Using one hand to work the lights or siren, plus your adreniline and (perhaps) concern of response time or nature of the call. Take all that and add driving over the speed limit, taking on-coming, crossing multi lane intersections. Think that's easy? Ok now add the general public reacting to your lights and sirens, the drivers in your "10000 hour) YouTube.
Driving is the most dangerous part of our job, don't ever forget that. We spend a lot of time out there and you need to stay on your toes.
gotbeerz001
Forum Deputy Chief
- 1,312
- 926
- 113
What I'm saying had more to do with your first statements (paraphrasing):
- all that is required is a solid red lamp
- the State is discouraging siren use
The vehicle code allows exemptions when responding Code 3. In order to exercise these exemptions, you must be assigned to a call in a Code 3 status. The solid red lamp is THE MINIMUM regarding warning devices required to be considered code 3 capable. If your agency/company chooses to add additional equipment, that is now the level to which that apparatus shall operate while driving Code 3.
All that is being said regarding siren use is that an equipped vehicle shall not use a siren in situations other than to warn others while responding to a call. If the apparatus has been dispatched to a call and the operator chooses to silence the siren, they are opening themselves and the company up to additional liabilities should there be an incident. In the eyes of the State, responding Code 3 is a situation where an exempt vehicle is "required" to use all equipped and available warning devices.
In my understanding, everything you said is misinterpreted and is being used to justify whatever driving habits you choose to use. You make it seem like there is much more latitude given to the responding unit than the law intends to give. If called into court, your argument will fail.