Emt-i

[bstone]

oh and basics can use epi pens, so waving that flag isnt really an argument now is it?

Basics can use an epi-pen if the person has their own. If someone eats something or gets stung by something of which they have a new allergy (or they just plain forgot their epi pen, or it's broken, or it's expired, or the epi pen isn't enough) then it makes utter sense to have EMT-Is in areas where there is no medic service available and allow those EMT-Is to inject 0.3mg SC/Im 1:1000 Epi into the dying patient who has an hour drive to the ER.

 

[KEVD18]

mea culpa sir, mea culpa. i guess i went right ahead and assumed that since you're school in ma, you were practicing here.

im still not buying sub q epi though. we all have epi pens and they work pretty well.

 

[bstone]

If you are arguing to accept the EMT-I as a standard over the Paramedic, I hope you do not ever become a medical director in EMS.

If you only going to get the job done half way, stay away!

Your ideas will set EMS back another 20 years. I guess you have not seen how healthcare has evolved or know how other professions became professionals.

Good luck with your career as an EMT-I!

Vent, do you have any idea of what you are posting? This is one of the most ridiculous posts I have seen in a long, long time. But for a moment I shall indulge you and say [sarcasm] I believe that medic should be disbanded and the highest level possible should be I-85 [/sarcasm].

 

[KEVD18]

Basics can use an epi-pen if the person has their own. If someone eats something or gets stung by something of which they have a new allergy (or they just plain forgot their epi pen, or it's broken, or it's expired, or the epi pen isn't enough) then it makes utter sense to have EMT-Is in areas where there is no medic service available and allow those EMT-Is to inject 0.3mg SC/Im 1:1000 Epi into the dying patient who has an hour drive to the ER.

maybe in nh, but in ma we carry two adult and two pedi that we can use in the event of anaphylaxis regardless of the patients prior prescription.

 

[KEVD18]

Vent, do you have any idea of what you are posting? This is one of the most ridiculous posts I have seen in a long, long time. But for a moment I shall indulge you and say [sarcasm] I believe that medic should be disbanded and the highest level possible should be I-85 [/sarcasm].

the sad part is that, while you try to make it a joke, im really under the impression that that what you actually believe, at least for "80% of the usa"

 

[VentMedic]

Vent, do you have any idea of what you are posting? This is one of the most ridiculous posts I have seen in a long, long time. But for a moment I shall indulge you and say [sarcasm] I believe that medic should be disbanded and the highest level possible should be I-85 [/sarcasm].

How many posts have you just spent arguing for the EMT-I? And not for advancing to EMT-P?

As KEVD18 just stated, at least for 80% of the US.

 

[bstone]

maybe in nh, but in ma we carry two adult and two pedi that we can use in the event of anaphylaxis regardless of the patients prior prescription.

One of the very few areas which are that liberal for Basics.

 

[JPINFV]

yeah, you cant really dump the bls level.

what service could afford to pay medics to take granny in for her colo, or take freddie to and from dialysis 3 times a week.

Your assuming that these patients need an ambulance and not a van that can hold a gurney and as an oxygen tank.

 

[bstone]

How many posts have you just spent arguing for the EMT-I? And not for advancing to EMT-P?

Perhaps because this thread is solely for discussion of Intermediate. I am also heavily in favor of expanded scope and more autonomy for medics. But with that comes more training. I think that an associate degree is utterly minimal but it could be offered in some places as a 4 year clinical-didactic program leading to a B.S. degree.

 

[KEVD18]

no, im not. i know full well most of then dont need it. but medicare/caid wont pay for it otherwise.

this is a topic for another thread, but i have said many time that we should have medical transportation techs. people trainied to administer oxygen, use a stair chair and a stretcher and drive from a - b. take all the actual medical stuff, and the lights and woo woo's off an ambulance and stick two mtt's on it to do all those types of calls. charge a third of what a bls ride costs. everybody wins.

 

[VentMedic]

Perhaps because this thread is solely for discussion of Intermediate. I am also heavily in favor of expanded scope and more autonomy for medics. But with that comes more training. I think that an associate degree is utterly minimal but it could be offered in some places as a 4 year clinical-didactic program leading to a B.S. degree.

But only for 20% of the US?

 

[bstone]

But only for 20% of the US?

Considering roughly only 20% of the USA has medic service then, yes, only 20% of the country would benefit from this expanded scope. Even tho it's such a small percentage the patients would ultimately benefit and having better trained and educated providers never hurts. Unless you disagree with that?

 

[KEVD18]

id really like to see your data on the proportions of als v. ils v. bls services across the country.

 

[VentMedic]

I agree. I was a B, then an I and now a P. When I was taking P class, there were some students that finished B, had a few weeks off and then were in the P class. Zero street experience other than clinicals. They struggled and at least one didn't finish the class.

I seriously doubt they struggled due to lack of "field experience as a B" but rather from a lack of study habits and prerequisites to understand the basic prinicples of medicine. There was not knowledge or education to draw from and so it all had to be barfed up from memorization.

 

[VentMedic]

Considering roughly only 20% of the USA has medic service then, yes, only 20% of the country would benefit from this expanded scope. Even tho it's such a small percentage the patients would ultimately benefit and having better trained and educated providers never hurts. Unless you disagree with that?

Florida, for all of its faults, has shown that a state can become nearly 100% ALS. And, that is without the benefit of state employment taxes to fund the state's budget.

California has also got an impressive ALS record and has achieved 100% accreditation for its Paramedic programs.

What is holding your area back? People not wanting to advance to the next level?

Small percentages count if it is a life.

 

[KEVD18]

alright kids, ive been on my computer so long its actually starting to burn my lap so im going to head to bead. maybe if i cant sleep i'll pop back in a little later but for now good night and good hunting.

 

[bstone]

Florida, for all of its faults, has shown that a state can become nearly 100% ALS. And, that is without the benefit of state employment taxes to fund the state's budget.

California has also got an impressive ALS record and has achieved 100% accreditation for its Paramedic programs.

What is holding your area back? People not wanting to advance to the next level?

Small percentages count if it is a life.

What is holding people back? For one the counties are huge and the only EMS service available is volunteer. Those volunteers have VERY limited time available for class/study (they work full time in other jobs and have families) so getting Basics is amazing enough. Not a single one of them has the opportunity to sit through a year of medic classes (which are not offered within 100 miles). Even if by miracle some medic were to show up and want to volunteer, the service is BLS and thus this medic would have to work only BLS. If, however, there would be an Intermediate class offered which could work out to be one semester, decompressed and more flexible then it could greatly offer human services to thousands of counties around the USA. But of course I am not telling you anything you don't already know.

 

[VentMedic]

Same here. Night all.

Especially since bstone is going to start blaming everything on the volunteers when he couldn't make his argument for EMT-I otherwise.

 

[bstone]

Yup. Gnight all.

 

[reaper]

What is holding people back? For one the counties are huge and the only EMS service available is volunteer. Those volunteers have VERY limited time available for class/study (they work full time in other jobs and have families) so getting Basics is amazing enough. Not a single one of them has the opportunity to sit through a year of medic classes (which are not offered within 100 miles). Even if by miracle some medic were to show up and want to volunteer, the service is BLS and thus this medic would have to work only BLS. If, however, there would be an Intermediate class offered which could work out to be one semester, decompressed and more flexible then it could greatly offer human services to thousands of counties around the USA. But of course I am not telling you anything you don't already know.

This argument is always thrown out there. It does not hold water. As Vent has pointed out to you, FL is 100% ALS. There are counties in N FL that are has big as the counties you are in. These counties are also very poor, IE: very small tax base. Yet, they all have full PAID ALS services. Makes me wonder why they can do this, but 80% of the country still relies on volleys?

SC requires EMT-I as a prerequisite to medic school. It is ridiculous to do this. It provides no better education and half the time produces not so great medics. If they are mediocre EMT-I's with bad habits, then that is how they will be as medics. In this state, I's can not do much more then a Basic. They are allowed to intubate (except if working with me). They can not push any drugs. They can preform a 3 lead, but do not know how to read it. So how are they any better then an "B"?

The only thing they can help with is starting an IV. Where I used to work in FL, the basics could start Iv's, so there is no difference in help.

The reason why large percentages of the country does not have medics is because they can put an "I" on the truck and call it ALS. That is cheating the pt and will not change until they do away with the "I" cert. If it is not there to use, then these services will be forced to have medics on the trucks. This will greatly increase the care that the Pt's will receive!