Emt-i

bstone said:
I dunno, perhaps allow for interventions which save lives, use some SC/IM epi 1:1000 in a patient with full blown anaphylaxis and is on death's door. Ya know, that sort of stuff- the stuff that saves lives.
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Dont subQ injections take a looooong time to work? Wouldnt be the best option in a patient where their airway is closing.
 
bstone said:
Those volunteers have VERY limited time available for class/study (they work full time in other jobs and have families) so getting Basics is amazing enough.
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Let me just say, I just finished medic class in August. While going through class, I worked full-time and am married with a small child at home. Furthermore, of the 7 in my class that did graduate, three others had families at home and the entire class worked full-time jobs. While the majority did work for either fire departments or ambulance services, less than half of us were getting our class paid for by our employer. Those that had to pay for class out of their own pocket had to figure out how to juggle class and work. Some were fortunate that employers would adjust schedules to allow for class commitments, but others had to make sure they could get their shift covered, hours made up, take paid time off, etc., to be at class or clinicals.

It can be done, if one wants it badly enough. It comes down to what sacrifices one is willing to make to get what they want. In the end, I think it makes for a more dedicated provider to the profession.

I just have a hard time buying into this arguement.
 
Epi-do said:
Let me just say, I just finished medic class in August. While going through class, I worked full-time and am married with a small child at home. Furthermore, of the 7 in my class that did graduate, three others had families at home and the entire class worked full-time jobs. While the majority did work for either fire departments or ambulance services, less than half of us were getting our class paid for by our employer. Those that had to pay for class out of their own pocket had to figure out how to juggle class and work. Some were fortunate that employers would adjust schedules to allow for class commitments, but others had to make sure they could get their shift covered, hours made up, take paid time off, etc., to be at class or clinicals.

It can be done, if one wants it badly enough. It comes down to what sacrifices one is willing to make to get what they want. In the end, I think it makes for a more dedicated provider to the profession.

I just have a hard time buying into this arguement.
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I understand you were able to make the commitment and pass the course however you likely had a medic program within 50 miles. People living in utter rural America have all the issues as I listed above and, also, no medic program.
 
Can we stop making excuses for it? When I went to medic school, I drove 85 miles one way. Just as Epi said, it is all in how much you want it and are willing to sacrifice for it!
 
reaper said:
Can we stop making excuses for it? When I went to medic school, I drove 85 miles one way. Just as Epi said, it is all in how much you want it and are willing to sacrifice for it!
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And when there is no medic program within 200 miles? That is not an excuse?
 
The reason the standards are so varied is because the areas covered are so varied. The statistics on ILS/BLS/ALS are going to be skewed because of the way some of us rural systems have to operate.

I cannot justify 24/7 ALS with the salaries associated with it for a measly 200 calls a year. So my agency is BLS. We have mutual aid agreements for ALS support/intervention from a neighboring district but the availability of the medics has dropped considerably and we are no longer guaranteed an ALS response by those agencies. Economic downturns, mills closing, lowered tax base has caused a decrease in available personnel from those adjoining paid departments.

So, our agency, though BLS has in the past had volunteers with ALS or ILS certifications. This did not change the BLS rating of our organization but was viewed as an 'added benefit' to the citizenry 'as available'. Because we couldn't guarantee that either of those would be available at all times.

When ALS is 15 minutes away, being able to start an IV, give sugar, or tube someone means that when they meet ALS they are in better shape than they would be had the ILS interventions not been done.

While in an urban environment with multiple systems in place, and an assortment of services to choose from, ALS is of course the best, highest care and should be available. But to extrapolate that into an elimination of a stop gap service to the outlying areas is wrong.

In my experience, more information and more education is a good thing. To put conditions on that knowledge will lower the level of knowledge and education to those unable to work towards EMT-P.

EMT-I is more information. EMT-I knows more than an EMT-B. How is this not a good thing? To say it has to be an all or nothing EMT-P or nothing, will condemn the rural outlying districts to choose nothing. It's a lot easier to set that high standard when the achievement of that standard is do-able.

Perhaps the language can be written making the EMT-I or BLS agencies only allowed in certain population densities. But to globally limit the education available because urban systems are misusing or abusing the levels is wrong.
 
Well, since most medic programs are 12 months and most "I" programs are six months, why can't that dedication extend for six more months?

Why can't you request a medic class at a school close to you? Obviously they have "I"classes, so work to get a medic class done!

Just remember "Where there's a will there's a way"!
 
reaper said:
Well, since most medic programs are 12 months and most "I" programs are six months, why can't that dedication extend for six more months?

Why can't you request a medic class at a school close to you? Obviously they have "I"classes, so work to get a medic class done!

Just remember "Where there's a will there's a way"!
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If only life were that simple. Unfortunately we live in the real world where it just isn't.
 
And the reason is?

Have you even tried?

All you have given is excuses, why not figure out a way to get it done?
 
reaper said:
And the reason is?

Have you even tried?

All you have given is excuses, why not figure out a way to get it done?
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When the closest medic program is a 200 mile drive in one direction and required showing up 3-4 times a week it quickly becomes evident that it's not realistic. That's 400 miles round trip, 8 hours of driving a day. The gas money alone would bankrupt some people. However you still feel this isn't a reason why someone cannot attend a medic program?
 
Where did you go to "I" school?

Talk to them about having a medic class, even if they have one a year. This can be done if the effort is put forward.
 
reaper said:
Where did you go to "I" school?

Talk to them about having a medic class, even if they have one a year. This can be done if the effort is put forward.
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I am not speaking personally. I am speaking to the 80% of rural America which is lucky to have a BLS ambulance. I have done internships in these areas as part of my field research.

Establishing an Intermediate program in these rural areas is less intensive than a medic program. Once there is a good Intermediate program and the population is being served than a bridge Intermediate->Medic program is an excellent idea.
 
bstone said:
I am not speaking personally. I am speaking to the 80% of rural America which is lucky to have a BLS ambulance. I have done internships in these areas as part of my field research.

Establishing an Intermediate program in these rural areas is less intensive than a medic program. Once there is a good Intermediate program and the population is being served than a bridge Intermediate->Medic program is an excellent idea.
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Agreed, but we were talking about areas that already have "I" programs. It can be worked to have a bridge program or a full medic class.

That is all I am saying, it can be done, if the effort is put forward.

This is why we are stating that in areas that have "I's", there is no reason not to have medics.
 
bstone said:
I am not speaking personally. I am speaking to the 80% of rural America which is lucky to have a BLS ambulance. I have done internships in these areas as part of my field research.

Establishing an Intermediate program in these rural areas is less intensive than a medic program. Once there is a good Intermediate program and the population is being served than a bridge Intermediate->Medic program is an excellent idea.
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Forming another level just gives some another reason or excuse not to go to Paramedic. In other words, some of the cool stuff but yet not the full responsibility of being a Paramedic.

Do you think any other healthcare profession has tolerated such excuses.
Do the rural hospitals allow CNAs that can do IVs and EKGs replace RNs? What about those states with hospitals that insisted on the LPN advancing to RN? Believe it or not even those in the rural areas made the sacrific or found a new job. Yes it is a hardship for rural hospitals to staff with degreed and licensed professionals but they find a way because they know that is the quality expected of them.

Only EMS has tolerated excuses to do less. If EMS wants to continue to be viewed as only a ride to the hosptial to where the professionals are, then settling for lower levels of certification by those in the EMS profession will achieve that. It is a good thing not all of the general public understands the differences in the level of care being provided or they would be p*$#ed. You want the public to know who and what you are but continue with the pseudo ALS crap to fool them.

It's not like it is "years" between the levels.
 
reaper said:
Agreed, but we were talking about areas that already have "I" programs. It can be worked to have a bridge program or a full medic class.

That is all I am saying, it can be done, if the effort is put forward.

This is why we are stating that in areas that have "I's", there is no reason not to have medics.
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Apply that quote to my area. The closest EMT-P program is a full time, day classes with ride time and ER shifts on evenings and weekends. It is a full time program and cannot be done while working. It was created to provide training for Civic Programs who were sponsoring employees to the program and were paying their wages while they attended. It is a three hour drive (each way) from my home, which at $4 a gallon gas is not a commute.

I can complete an EMT-I in 6 weeks at a station only 45 miles away. It is set up for evening and weekend classes since the program is designed for volunteers who are working full time in other jobs.

I work full time in a job that pays me exceedingly well. I have no desire to work as a medic. My husband has been an EMT-P for 2O years so its not like I don't value the education or the cert. I am also over 50. It's not economically feasible for me to go to medic school unless I was going to do it as a career full time. At my age, in my area, the chances of being hired are pretty low given my age. My EMS experience is in a volunteer agency and as a BLS agency will not pay for EMT-P but will pay for EMT-I.

I'm currently waiting for the next class to be scheduled to get my EMT-I. It will give me an opportunity to learn more, and be able to do more for patients in my area. The local communities have been unable to pass EMS levies and are reducing the level of coverage rather than expanding it. So why should this not be available to me?
 
I'm an EMT-I in the state of Georgia where EMT-i is pretty much the standard, bottom of the barrel person on the ambulance. There are some EMT-B's, they are mostly a dying breed of first responders on the fire trucks.

The 8ish services that I am familiar with in metro atlanta have trucks w/ an EMT-i, ambulance driver and a paramedic who rides in the back of the truck. I'm sure there are loads of exceptions but I know from downtown Atlanta to Columbus all 911 trucks are ALS.

My scope of practice includes everything listed above, but we can also administer a few other drugs... nitro/asprin, glucose, and maybe a couple others that I cant think of. It doesnt really apply to me, my paramedic partner usually does the drugs while I'm doing IV, vitals, Hx, etc.

I saw the epi debate, we can only give a pt their own epi pen, we cant do sub-q epi. in Ga.

Personally, I think that an EMT-I should be lowest level of EMT, training hours wise. In Ga its almost double the classroom hours (don't quote that, I dont remember how many more hours it is but its a full year of tech school) and I'm all about sending a person w/ as much education as possible into the field.

I will be persuing EMT-P, however I personally felt that I needed to gain some experience in the field first. I've been working just under 6 months on a 911 truck and still feel like I'm lost. Hopefully I will begin paramedic school next spring... 1 year in the field before beginning.
 
BossyCow said:
Apply that quote to my area. The closest EMT-P program is a full time, day classes with ride time and ER shifts on evenings and weekends. It is a full time program and cannot be done while working. It was created to provide training for Civic Programs who were sponsoring employees to the program and were paying their wages while they attended. It is a three hour drive (each way) from my home, which at $4 a gallon gas is not a commute.

I can complete an EMT-I in 6 weeks at a station only 45 miles away. It is set up for evening and weekend classes since the program is designed for volunteers who are working full time in other jobs.

I work full time in a job that pays me exceedingly well. I have no desire to work as a medic. My husband has been an EMT-P for 2O years so its not like I don't value the education or the cert. I am also over 50. It's not economically feasible for me to go to medic school unless I was going to do it as a career full time. At my age, in my area, the chances of being hired are pretty low given my age. My EMS experience is in a volunteer agency and as a BLS agency will not pay for EMT-P but will pay for EMT-I.

I'm currently waiting for the next class to be scheduled to get my EMT-I. It will give me an opportunity to learn more, and be able to do more for patients in my area. The local communities have been unable to pass EMS levies and are reducing the level of coverage rather than expanding it. So why should this not be available to me?
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As noted, I stated this can be done in an area that has an established EMT-I program.

I am to tired to even comment on a 6 WEEK EMT-I class!:rolleyes:
 
beating_a_dead_horse.jpg


my arms are getting tired......
 
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