Emt-i

bstone said:
Many professions have this requirement. PA is one of them. You must have clinical experience before becoming a PA. Many of them are former medics.
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Your clinical experience can be as a CNA or EMT-B or none at all. Your clinicals for PA will be done during the PA program.
 
bstone said:
So what you're saying is you do not believe that mandatory clinical experience should be required before going to medic school?

Many professions have this requirement. PA is one of them. You must have clinical experience before becoming a PA. Many of them are former medics.
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I had 700 hours of Paramedic (in the field, actively working as a paramedic) experience DURING medic school, plus 240 hours in an internship after medic school, followed by 200 patient contacts and another 240 hours training as a third rider when hired, plus 12 months riding with another paramedic after that.

No, you do not need clinical experience before going to medic school. You get plenty of experience as you go. You do not come out unfamiliar with how things work in the field.
 
VentMedic said:
No. Doctors are Doctors when they enter residency. EMT-Is are NOT Paramedics.
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This is absolutely true. However doctors are required to have two years of clinical experience (aka clerkships/internships) before being graduated as doctors. Even then they are not independent physicians but must be under the supervision of a senior, attending physician until they take more exams (Step 3) and complete a residency.

I am using EMT-I as a pre-req to medic in parallel to a resident physician becoming an attending physician. It's not a completely accurate one but indulge me if you will.
 
Hastings said:
I had 700 hours of Paramedic (in the field, actively working as a paramedic) experience DURING medic school, plus 240 hours in an internship after medic school, followed by 200 patient contacts and another 240 hours training as a third rider when hired, plus 12 months riding with another paramedic after that.

No, you do not need clinical experience before going to medic school. You get plenty of experience as you go. You do not come out unfamiliar with how things work in the field.
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So you feel that direct entry from Basic school to medic school is appropriate?
 
bstone said:
This is absolutely true. However doctors are required to have two years of clinical experience (aka clerkships/internships) before being graduated as doctors. Even then they are not independent physicians but must be under the supervision of a senior, attending physician until they take more exams (Step 3) and complete a residency.

I am using EMT-I as a pre-req to medic in parallel to a resident physician becoming an attending physician. It's not a completely accurate one but indulge me if you will.
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Again, you're talking about a new Physician getting experience working under another experienced physician.

And as such, Paramedics are required to get experience with another experienced paramedic before being set out on their own.

bstone said:
So you feel that direct entry from Basic school to medic school is appropriate?
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Yes. I did it. Best decision I ever made.
 
As an EMT-I, you will have a few more skills but without most of the knowledge. Doctors do have MD behind their name before they start their residency. As an EMT-I, you will not have all the education, knowledge, skills or title of EMT-P.
 
VentMedic said:
As an EMT-I, you will have a few more skills but without most of the knowledge. Doctors do have MD behind their name before they start their residency. As an EMT-I, you will not have all the education, knowledge, skills or title of EMT-P.
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Yes, I think everyone will absolutely agree with your assertion that medics have more training and skills than an Intermediate. No debate or argument there, whatsoever, at all.
 
no, i agree(to a point) that one should have clinical experience before attending medic school.

what i disagree with is that that experience should be done as an I. i think the I rank is pointless, a waste of both time and money, and does not provide any significant preparation for medic school. i dont think being an i first will make someone a better medic. i dont think your argument that you should be an i so you can start code lines which will temper you for real emergencies has any validity whatsoever.

i also think that you're a very smart and proud man who is trying in vain to defend a bad position. i think your pride is getting in front of your brain. you're an i, so you cant understand why anybody wouldnt want to be an i. you dont get why it isnt a requirement because you used it as a stepping stone and think everybody should do the same. i get it. i dont agree with it, but i understand why you're still in that foxhole.
 
KEVD18 said:
no, i agree(to a point) that one should have clinical experience before attending medic school.

what i disagree with is that that experience should be done as an I. i think the I rank is pointless, a waste of both time and money, and does not provide any significant preparation for medic school. i dont think being an i first will make someone a better medic. i dont think your argument that you should be an i so you can start code lines which will temper you for real emergencies has any validity whatsoever.

i also think that you're a very smart and proud man who is trying in vain to defend a bad position. i think your pride is getting in front of your brain. you're an i, so you cant understand why anybody wouldnt want to be an i. you dont get why it isnt a requirement because you used it as a stepping stone and think everybody should do the same. i get it. i dont agree with it, but i understand why you're still in that foxhole.
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As a preface, the first paragraph of what you wrote was fine. The second paragraph was unnecessarily personal and directed toward me, not at the issues at hand.

I believe that if a person knows how to start lines, calculate drip rates, do ACLS, 3 leak EKGs and is working every day with a medic on a P/I truck then, yes, they do indeed have a great deal of insight and head start in a medic program than a person who just completed Basic school. I firmly believe that we both can agree to this, right?
 
bstone said:
This is absolutely true. However doctors are required to have two years of clinical experience (aka clerkships/internships) before being graduated as doctors. Even then they are not independent physicians but must be under the supervision of a senior, attending physician until they take more exams (Step 3) and complete a residency.

I am using EMT-I as a pre-req to medic in parallel to a resident physician becoming an attending physician. It's not a completely accurate one but indulge me if you will.
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Residency and clerkships are a direct comparison to medic school internships and clinical rotations. To compare it to being a basic before a paramedic would be like saying that physicians should start their clerkships before they start to take classes during their first year of medical school.
 
Everyone does realize that if you do not believe that Intermediate should be a pre-req before medic school the it stands to reason that Basic should not be required either. Afterall there is at least one medic here who has said he has no problem with direct entry (and no field experience) into medic program after graduating from Basic. So then why not do away with Basic which obviously has less in common with medic than Intermediate?
 
Ideally a 2 year Paramedic program would be the entry for EMS. Realistically we still need EMT-Bs that do serve a vital link in some areas. What we don't need is EMT-I or the 50+ other certs inbetween confusing legislators and the public.
 
it was without a doubt directed towards you. had we been in the same room, i would have been looking right at you when i said it. this is as close to an actual conversation as is possible on a message board.

you learn all those things in great detail(much more detail than in i school) in p school. knowing bits and pieces of that info prior to medics school will absolutely let you coast a teeny tiny bit. but i said make a significant difference, which i dont think it does.

we had an nremt-i in my medic program. practiced in maine in a district where an i truck was als. medics were at least an hour away if you could get them. every time we we learning something he had already learned id say something like "this must be cake for you". you knwo what his response was? "dude, i thought i knew about this stuff before, but -i doesnt even begin to cover this".

we are never going to change each others minds on this one. you think i should be required, i think it should be abolished. it doesnt get more polar than that.

at this point i think we should just let it go. our opinions are well documented.
 
VentMedic said:
Ideally a 2 year Paramedic program would be the entry for EMS. Realistically we still need EMT-Bs that do serve a vital link in some areas. What we don't need is EMT-I or the 50+ other certs inbetween confusing legislators and the public.
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So we need people who cannot start lines, do EKGs and transmit to the ER, secure airways with an ET tube or use some ACLS drugs, but we don't need those who can?
 
yeah, you cant really dump the bls level.

what service could afford to pay medics to take granny in for her colo, or take freddie to and from dialysis 3 times a week.
 
bstone said:
So we need people who cannot start lines, do EKGs and transmit to the ER, secure airways with an ET tube or use some ACLS drugs, but we don't need those who can?
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Instead of a Paramedic you want someone who can sorta do this but not really that?
 
VentMedic said:
Instead of a Paramedic you want someone who can sorta do this but not really that?
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You do realize that the same can be said of medics on the bus instead of EM residents or emergency nurses?
 
having someone that can acquire(not interpret or treat) ekg's isnt incredibly useful. oh sure, advanced warning of the cath lab and what not but thats about it. and not a monumental benefit either.
 
KEVD18 said:
having someone that can acquire(not interpret or treat) ekg's isnt incredibly useful. oh sure, advanced warning of the cath lab and what not but thats about it. and not a monumental benefit either.
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Wrong.

Bringing a PT with a confirmed STEMI to a hospital with a cath lab will save the PT's life. Not knowing and bringing the PT to the closest doc-in-a-box ER will likely kill 'em.
 
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