Unfortunately it is not a dead horse since more areas are adopting quick certs as a way to not address the real issue. Too many do want this problem to just die just as all the EMS problems have been ignored. So just do as you always have and continue to be at the bottom of the pit when it comes to recognition as a healthcare profession.
Emt-i
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KEVD18
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no, this issue itself isnt a dead horse.
the dead horse is this discussion. as i said two pages ago(expanded slightly), there are two camps here. the "i's are great and everybody should get their i" camp and the "-i's are of limited value. they should be eliminated" camp.
both are quite firmly entrenched and show no signs of ceasing hostilities or surrendering. now, we can spend a year debating the shape of the table for the peace talks, or we can all just pack up our camps and go home. but the back and forth of exactly the same information, just repainted and thrown out again is a waste of time, effort and paint.
y'all do what you will. i quit.
the dead horse is this discussion. as i said two pages ago(expanded slightly), there are two camps here. the "i's are great and everybody should get their i" camp and the "-i's are of limited value. they should be eliminated" camp.
both are quite firmly entrenched and show no signs of ceasing hostilities or surrendering. now, we can spend a year debating the shape of the table for the peace talks, or we can all just pack up our camps and go home. but the back and forth of exactly the same information, just repainted and thrown out again is a waste of time, effort and paint.
y'all do what you will. i quit.
gillysaurus
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I just wanted to say that this thread has enlightened me a whole lot on why the "hells nah!" EMT-I camp thinks the way they do. I was very "EMT-I sounds great!" until I really got to read what both sides have to say.
I just had to add, I always thought EMT-I would be an excellent course to help someone really become good at assisting with ALS. Like, if you understood how to tube a patient, or what drugs should be given and when in cases an EMT-B wasn't taught, that sort of thing, you would really be an asset to your medic. You could set up tubes/drugs/anything during a cardiac arrest faster, you could assist in certain procedures if something went wrong. It would be more understanding of ALS than a basic has, thereby making it easier to help a paramedic with what is rightfully THEIR job.
But then again, a great ALS assistant is nothing more than a very well trained and knowledgable basic. Thanks for teaching me something new today ^_^
I just had to add, I always thought EMT-I would be an excellent course to help someone really become good at assisting with ALS. Like, if you understood how to tube a patient, or what drugs should be given and when in cases an EMT-B wasn't taught, that sort of thing, you would really be an asset to your medic. You could set up tubes/drugs/anything during a cardiac arrest faster, you could assist in certain procedures if something went wrong. It would be more understanding of ALS than a basic has, thereby making it easier to help a paramedic with what is rightfully THEIR job.
But then again, a great ALS assistant is nothing more than a very well trained and knowledgable basic. Thanks for teaching me something new today ^_^
Gosh, this arguement gets made for being a basic too, and it still doesn't hold up.
First, you have to assume that the EMT-I would actually be working on an ambulance where their new found "skills" would be used, and not on a NETS so called ambulance (more likely). Which of course would mean that, if this were to happen, there would be a huge increase in the number of unqualified providers who are working in the field attempting to provide patient care. How is that good?
Second, you seem to be going off the premise that all they will perfect is certain procedures...which they will also get done while in their internship.
Actually, PA is not one of them. While some schools may require it, not all do, nor is it mandatory.
I'll go on record saying that I don't think that having your basic should be required for medic school. All the concepts that are taught in basic school are also taught to paramedics, and in much, much greater detail. All the procedures that are taught to basics are also taught to pramedics. So why should in be a requirement? Seriously, why? It's a course that lasts all of 110-150 hours, what use is it? Why not just add it into the paramedic curriculum, or realize that it's a redundant course?
Sure. Let's see the numbers for this whopper of a lie. Even if you are basing that 80% on geography and not population, it still doesn't add up to 80%. And if it's population based it's so far off it's laughable.
There are many, many valid, justifiable arguements out there for why the EMT-I is a problem certification, and many more here for why it doesn't need to be required for paramedic school. I do have one question for you though: if you really are so passionate about EMS and advancing it, why are you such a proponent of a worthless measure like mandating having an I-cert prior to medic school? Why not just advocate for increasing the length of paramedic school? That would solve all the problems you've listed and more.
KEVD18
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go back an reread the three pages of this thread. he's been asked to back up his numbers a few times, to no avail.
in my extensive experience making poop up as i go along, ive found that when i make up numbers, i have trouble backing up those numbers.
not saying thast whats going on here, just an anecdote from my past.....
I know. To be honest, he's been called out on pretty much everything I quoted. But I had to get in my two cents anyway.
KEVD18
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anomalous:
while i think you're probably right, theres no real reason to lock this thread. the discussion has always been and continues to be civil, adult and reasonable. no name calling or agressive posting. its all been very flowers and bunnies so far.
while i think you're probably right, theres no real reason to lock this thread. the discussion has always been and continues to be civil, adult and reasonable. no name calling or agressive posting. its all been very flowers and bunnies so far.
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I have to agree with Kev.
I read through the entire thread... and I'm not going to lock it... at least not now. Everyone has done a VERY good job at posting actual arguments... rather than reverting to ad hominem attacks.
See Kev, that where your problem lies, you just not a team player. I think you hurt Jons feelings.......
Sorry to change to thread a bit, but this age old argument that holds ZERO WATER always comes up (usually by the same people!) and cannot be substantiated. An intermediate is not a paramedic, it is a half a$$ed excuse to make the most of something using as little as possible for as little money as possible. Experience is not needed before going to medic school and in all actuality reduces the learning pattern of bad habits which sooooo many EMT's develop quickly. Opinions are great, but if you come in here with the "this is the facts" talk and can't back it, then stop wasting the time of others who are actually looking for decent info. 11 pages of the same old crap is just utterly ridiculous.
BTW - Texas has a lot higher than 20% medic coverage as does most state's. Give me some time and I'll post it for you...............................