EMT education at it's finest

Sasha

Sasha

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So, I'm posting this here so others can be as shocked, dismayed and dissapointed as I was.

I was at work today and one of my coworkers, also an EMT-Basic, is studying because he's testing with a fire department soon.

So I'm goofing off on the computer while he's sitting next to me, reading his book and occasionally asking questions. One that got me was "So, what's the CPR ratio for a patient with a pulse?"

I thought he was joking, he doesn't have a record for being bright but seriously!? Sadly he wasn't.

Sometimes I imagine an EMT class advertisment to be something along the lines of "Become an EMT-B in two short weeks! Brain and common sense optional!"
 
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Common sense and understanding is completely overrated. If something makes sense and would be efficient, why would we do it?

I hope you corrected his mistake and he was aghast that he made the mistake.
 
Vizior said:
Common sense and understanding is completely overrated. If something makes sense and would be efficient, why would we do it?

I hope you corrected his mistake and he was aghast that he made the mistake.
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While I did correct him, he intially didn't believe me, saying he thought you did CPR on anyone who was unresponsive. Then I asked him why, if that was true, did you check a pulse? ".....Oooooooohhh.. yeah, you're right."
 
That's crazy. Did you explain to him why that was a foolish question? Whanever I see/hear something foolish, I do my best to educate them. For example, I've repeatedly explained to the nursing home staff why a pt in APE, or respiratory distress in general, shouldn't be lying flat, or why CPR on a bed without a CPR board under the pt is ineffective. Once, I witnessed a BLS crew at the ED transporting an arrest fowlers while "bagging" the resevoir of a NRB. I told that story a hundred times over the next week, but I kept a straight face and explained to the crew why this was wrong. I have this pet peeve for ignorance, and try to educate without hostility whenever possible. I'll still make fun of them later on, though. Who knows, if you drop a little knowledge, you might save a life by proxy some day.
 
Sasha said:
While I did correct him, he intially didn't believe me, saying he thought you did CPR on anyone who was unresponsive. Then I asked him why, if that was true, did you check a pulse? ".....Oooooooohhh.. yeah, you're right."
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Dear God.

Former coworker - EMT-B, CNA, nursing student, BS in Integrative Physiology - just employed at an OB-GYN clinic - asked me what an ectopic pregnancy was.
 
I can't decide if these kinds of questions scare me more than knowing that there are other people out there with the same questions, that just aren't asking them.
 
Mae he's pushing the envelope of BLS? (heh heh).

I bet he remembers it after that!
Over the years I've caught a few people starting compressions ithout adequately checking for a pulse. I wonder how many "saves" with CPR performed under one minute in length are due to this...and how many deaths?
 
But there is a time you do CPR on a patient with a pulse...

Newborns with a pulse rate less than 60 bpm.
 
Ach. Don't get may of those at my place.

Thanks!!
Is that BLs or ALS?;)
 
ffemt8978 said:
But there is a time you do CPR on a patient with a pulse...

Newborns with a pulse rate less than 60 bpm.
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I know that, but we weren't talking about newborns in which case the ratio is no different than if it was full pulseless arrest, we were talking in general.
 
Sounds like one of the kids I had in my class. Fortunately he was forced to drop out of program. Boy was I relieved.
 
How's this for an answer. but it would be when to stop CPR on a pt with a pulse when he or she says OUCH and stop it and tries hitting you. :P :) :P :)
 
Wouldn't surprise me if they got confused by the 2005 AHA standards for lay-rescuers. Consider that for the non HCP CPR courses, participants are being taught, unresponsive with abnormal breathing (to cover agonal resps) start CPR. If he took this CPR course before starting class, it's possible the various standards got mixed together.

Then again, Albert Einstein said "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
 
I remember I asked a stupid question ONCE


During my clinical ride time, I asked how do you know if its a "full arrest"?

Whats the difference between cardiac arrest and full arrest


They just laughed at me...


We all get that 1 stupid question allowance. Some people just abuse it :p
 
ffemt8978 said:
But there is a time you do CPR on a patient with a pulse...

Newborns with a pulse rate less than 60 bpm.
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And I was once told by a doc to begin compressions on an adult with a palpable pulse rate in the 20s.
 
Choking person that becomes unresponsive?

Choking person becomes unresposive and unconscious while performing abdominal thrusts?

They may have a palpable pulse for a short time but you begin CPR immediately and not wait for the pulse to stop.
 
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Buzz said:
And I was once told by a doc to begin compressions on an adult with a palpable pulse rate in the 20s.
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Sure, if you find somebody with a pulse of 5 I think you can pretty much call it cardiac arrest and start compressions.

Does anyone have a clearly defined number of bpm where they make this call for anyone besides a newborn?
 
W1IM said:
Sure, if you find somebody with a pulse of 5 I think you can pretty much call it cardiac arrest and start compressions.

Does anyone have a clearly defined number of bpm where they make this call for anyone besides a newborn?
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On childern and infants if they have a pulse of less than 60 with signs of poor perfusion you start compressions. There is no number for adults....its a judgement call. As far as neonates its under 60 start compressions and under 100 if not fixed by assisted ventilations.
 
omak42 said:
On childern and infants if they have a pulse of less than 60 with signs of poor perfusion you start compressions. There is no number for adults....its a judgement call. As far as neonates its under 60 start compressions and under 100 if not fixed by assisted ventilations.
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I'm just going to quote this to reiterate it. Can't believe it took this many posts for someone to mention that you also start CPR on all pediatrics with pulse (not just neonates).
 
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