EMT-B to EMT-P... A Bad Idea?

[Shishkabob]

Are the mods hiding my post?


I feel left out

 

[ResTech]

My standards for clinical care are very high. I just don't buy into some of this "holier than you" BS that gets touted by many on here.

 

[MMiz]

Are the mods hiding my post?


I feel left out

I'm not sure what you're talking about. We're not hiding any posts.

 

[Shishkabob]

I was being facetious

 

[EMTinNEPA]

I hear this every single time this debate pops up, and I have yet to be shown the "bad habit" that all EMTs fall prey to if they work as a basic before a medic.

Red herring?

When you take a blood pressure, do you put your thumb on the head of the stethoscope? Do you do anything more to assess your patient's mental status than "A&Ox3"? When you place EKG electrodes on a patient, do you put them in generalized places or actually pay attention to anatomical landmarks? Same question for auscultation of lung sounds. Do you set up pre-filled syringes of medications for medics? If so, do you push out the air before you hand it to the medic? When you check a patient's pupils, do you just check their reactivity to light? Or do you also note their sizes compared to each other, the speed at which they react to light? Do you also check the eyes for discoloration, foreign bodies, or signs of blood in the anterior chamber? Or do you just write "PEARL" on your trip sheet? Do you check the rate of capillary refill on nausea/vomiting/diarrhea patients?

Should I go on?

 

[ResTech]

Your just an EMT... you cant use the word "facetious "... its too complex.

 

[EMTinNEPA]

EMTinPEA

I'm in PEA?!?

*quickly checks himself for carotid and distal pulses*

 

[Shishkabob]

Oh yes, please go on.


Also, please elaborate as to how ONLY Basics can perform bad things. Because right now, it seems like you think there is no such thing as a lazy medic who listens to one zone on a lung and calls it clear.

Or how about the medic who doesn't check to make sure the air is out before they administer the drug? Why aren't they double checking for themselves anyway?



Or heck, what about the countless stories we hear of medics pronouncing someone on scene, leaving, then getting called back out for signs of life with the pt still very well alive?

 

[daedalus]

My standards for clinical care are very high. I just don't buy into some of this "holier than you" BS that gets touted by many on here.

Negative. I am not better than anyone else on this forum. Like I said, I believe in making my profession better.

 

[EMTinNEPA]

Oh yes, please go on.

Also, please elaborate as to how ONLY Basics can perform bad things. Because right now, it seems like you think there is no such thing as a lazy medic who listens to one zone on a lung and calls it clear.

Or how about the medic who doesn't check to make sure the air is out before they administer the drug? Why aren't they double checking for themselves anyway?

Or heck, what about the countless stories we hear of medics pronouncing someone on scene, leaving, then getting called back out for signs of life with the pt still very well alive?

Firsly, I NEVER said that ONLY EMT-Bs can pick up bad habits. Did you hurt your back setting up a strawman so huge?

Yes, there is such a thing as paramedics with bad habits. But how many of those paramedics would do things correctly if they hadn't spent 10 years as an EMT doing it wrong while "assisting" paramedics? If an EMT with no experience touching ANYTHING ALS goes in, they are either taught the correct way and stick to that way, or they are taught the incorrect way because they're attending a second or third rate medic mill.

 

[Shishkabob]

Never said there aren't bad habits to learn... but if you, or anyone for that matter, are going to spew something such as "THEY WILL LEARN BAD HABITS!" you need to back it up.




As I say in every single one of these threads: Don't do blanket statements that you can't back up.

 

[Akulahawk]

Funny you should mention that... I'll respond from my perspective inline, in red for easier responses... from when I was an EMT...

When you take a blood pressure, do you put your thumb on the head of the stethoscope?
No.
Do you do anything more to assess your patient's mental status than "A&Ox3"?
Yes.
When you place EKG electrodes on a patient, do you put them in generalized places or actually pay attention to anatomical landmarks?
Do you place the EKG electrodes on the actual designated locations for a 3 lead or locations that will closely represent the 3 lead? What about 12 lead? what about using the MCLs?
Same question for auscultation of lung sounds.
Paid attention to landmarks...
Do you set up pre-filled syringes of medications for medics? If so, do you push out the air before you hand it to the medic?
Yep - and without losing medication.
When you check a patient's pupils, do you just check their reactivity to light? Or do you also noted their sizes compared to each other, the speed at which they react to light? Do you also check the eyes for discoloration, foreign bodies, or signs of blood in the anterior chamber?
Yep. All the above. What about checking accommodation?
Or do you just write "PEARL" on your trip sheet?
When they actually are...
Do you check the rate of capillary refill on nausea/vomiting/diarrhea patients?
Yep.
Should I go on?

 

[EMTinNEPA]

As I say in every single one of these threads: Don't do blanket statements that you can't back up.

So "field experience will make paramedic school easier" isn't a blanket statement?

 

[daedalus]

Funny you should mention that... I'll respond from my perspective inline, in red for easier responses... from when I was an EMT...

He was not talking to you as a paramedic, but to EMTs preforming assessments.

 

[Akulahawk]

Negative. I am not better than anyone else on this forum. Like I said, I believe in making my profession better.

Then back off from the condescending attitude. You do not help the profession by doing that. EMS has (for quite a long time) been known for eating it's young. The other medical professions have learned that lesson as well. I'm all for increasing the baseline educational level of EMS providers in general. You don't improve the baseline education of everyone by smacking them upside the head and then telling them that they're dumb.

I'm very much in agreement that EMT school is severely lacking in a lot of areas, especially medical assessment. That can be rectified...

 

[Akulahawk]

He was not talking to you as a paramedic, but to EMTs preforming assessments.

That was how I did my assessments... before I became a Paramedic...

 

[EMTinNEPA]

Funny you should mention that... I'll respond from my perspective inline, in red for easier responses... from when I was an EMT...

Now, did you do all that because your EMT course taught you to, or because a paramedic showed you the proper way? Or did you learn to do all that during paramedic school?

 

[EMTinNEPA]

Then back off from the condescending attitude. You do not help the profession by doing that. EMS has (for quite a long time) been known for eating it's young. The other medical professions have learned that lesson as well. I'm all for increasing the baseline educational level of EMS providers in general. You don't improve the baseline education of everyone by smacking them upside the head and then telling them that they're dumb.

I'm very much in agreement that EMT school is severely lacking in a lot of areas, especially medical assessment. That can be rectified...

You also don't improve the baseline education by allowing first-aiders masquerading as medical professionals who think that their 120 hour class was enough education to continue to think this way without opposition.

 

[daedalus]

Then back off from the condescending attitude. You do not help the profession by doing that. EMS has (for quite a long time) been known for eating it's young. The other medical professions have learned that lesson as well. I'm all for increasing the baseline educational level of EMS providers in general. You don't improve the baseline education of everyone by smacking them upside the head and then telling them that they're dumb.

I'm very much in agreement that EMT school is severely lacking in a lot of areas, especially medical assessment. That can be rectified...

Can you point out where I have been rude or called somebody dumb on this forum? I invite you to search my post history. I have always refrained from calling any individual names or resorting to rude behavior to make my point. You have now decided to make this a personal debate rather than a professional one, I do not see how that is helpful.

However, I will stop posting on this forum before I decide to water down the harsh reality of where we are at right now. If you take the time, you will see that when I became a member of this forum I constantly took offense to what respected providers on this forum said about EMTs. I fought them and called them rude. Than, I did my own research and opened my ears and mind a little bit. I thank them for giving it to me straight, and now I try and return the favor.

We will not become the colleagues of our peers in the hospital if we keep making excuses.

 

[ffemt8978]

Rather than wake up in the morning and have to ban everyone involved in this thread, it's getting a 24 hour time out.