EMT #1 Surprising Minimum-Wage Job
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JPINFV
Gadfly
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My one and only question in terms of the article is if they are combining basics and paramedics (pretty likely in my opinion). Everything else in regards to this is going to be based on supply and demand and people arguing that we should be paid more 'because we're special' (and lack an understanding of basic economics).
daedalus
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Sorry, there is no room for improvement in wages for those who have a 120 hour education.
Dominion
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Suprising for the public joe schmoe? Probably. Suprising for us? Not so much. Pretty much what daedalus said. I know EMT schools out there DO exist that go beyond the ciriculum but it's the common majority that drags it down.
medic417
The Truth Provider
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They also probably include the $0 people that give their services away for free.
DV_EMT
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true... but I had 0 hours for my pharmacy technician licence (except from working as a clerk in a pharmacy) and I passed my boards and make 2-3 time the amount of an EMT... with 0 hours
daedalus
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That little loophole was closed in 2005, and now becoming a pharm tech requires a degree or completion of a pharm tech program.
medic417
The Truth Provider
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Not in all states.
subliminal1284
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Dude that is no argument, many jobs with no prior education whatsoever besides a high school diploma are making quite a bit more than basics
JPINFV
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How many of those jobs have as many people trying to get into it as EMS. Sure, janitors and garbage men probably make more than most EMT-Bs, but most people don't find their calling in those fields.
daedalus
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As JP said, simple supply and demand. Lots of people want the cool EMT job while very little people want to clean school bathrooms. Employers can set wages low because there are hundreds of EMTs in the local area gunning for one or two spots.
Again, this goes back to education. Even if you do not believe that EMTs need fancy book learning, it is advantageous for your own financial future to advocate tougher entry requirements to EMT programs and more rigorous coursework and testing. This will create less EMTs and more demand, driving wages higher. Yes, I have selfish reasons for wanting EMT school to be a lot harder, but my over riding reason is better patient care.
I am going to guess that you are young and have very little life experience, based on your statement. There are many, many jobs/careers that require less education and provide much better wages, and don't have the responsibility the EMT has.
I can only speak for myself, but I don't believe this is a profession that someone gets into for the money, there are too many easier and better ways to make money. Similiar to hospice or special education teachers, this is a career one chooses for the benefit of their fellow man/woman. Knowing the pay and work load, no one in thier right mind would jump into a job/career like this for the money.
Aidey
Community Leader Emeritus
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In that same vein, per MSN a bachelors degree in social work is one of the lowest paying degrees a college student can get. Sure, they can get a masters degree and earn more, but entry level is a bachelors. Similar to a teaching degree. More education does not always equal higher wages.
I'm not weighing in on the should EMTs have more education, or should they be paid more. I'm simply pointing out that increased education does not always mean someone will make a fantastic wage. Neither does a high demand. Social workers are in high demand, but that doesn't mean they make any higher wages.
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daedalus
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Negative, ghostrider. I am quite well experienced in EMS systems both in California and around the US. I have worked in retail, food service, and public health in addition to EMS in my lifetime, and I am a full time college student close to applying to medical school.
I have a pretty extensive knowledge of EMS in the southern California area and the supply and demand of EMTs here and elsewhere. There are literally thousands of EMTs in the greater Los Angeles metropolitan area and very few open positions right now. Every semester, even more EMTs throw themselves into the pool of applicants. For every EMT employed around here and most of the country, there may be hundreds ready to replace him. Employee termination and job turnover is higher than ever and wages are very low. Why pay an 18-24 year old EMT (average age of an EMT in LA) anything more than minimum wage when plenty more would kill for his job while waiting to get hired by a fire department? In contrast, few people wish to take jobs like sanitation or janitor, so wages are slightly higher to attract applicants. Also, EMTs have very little education or responsibility. The only standard of care an EMT has to worry about is failing to provide oxygen or driving without due regard.
Also, before you make assumptions into why people are in this "profession", you should get some experience as an EMS provider under your belt. Most of my co-workers do not have such idealistic motivations and see EMS as poop work until they get to fight fires.
You may want to provide proof of your assumptions of me before posting them. If you have any questions I will be happy to answer them.
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You sure take things the wrong way, my observation was in no way a knock on you personally. Contrary to many persons beliefs, there is nothing wrong with being young or inexperienced, they are just a fact of life for many people.
I was responding to your comment in regard to education and wages, which I know from experience are not accurate.
This is not a court of law so I do not have any burden of proof, I made and observation and stand by that, right or wrong. Given that you did not directly addres that statement, I am probably correct, I would assume late twenties to very early thirties, but it does not really matter, I made an observation and really do not care in actuality, it is, what it is, an observation, nothing more, nothing less.
Your work and ambition in pursuing your career goals are commendable, and you should be proud of yourself for all of your hard work and determination. I am not, nor was I questioning your experience in EMS, again, it is what it is, and was never in question by me in any way.
I wish you all the best in your endeavours, and hope that you reach all of the goals that you have set for yourself.
The only persons opinion you should be concerned with is the one who looks back at you in the mirror every morning, because that my friend, is in the end the only one that truely matters.
daedalus
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Than I am not sure I understand your earlier statement. I am choosing not to reveal my age for privacy reasons (I live in a smaller community and have come across several people here from the same area). However, it is safe to same I am younger. I replied to your earlier post because I believe it is important to inform people of the harsh realities of EMS at this time for its providers.
My views are summed up with my belief that EMTs have not shown any reason to be paid above the level they are at the moment. The free market supports my statement. If it was difficult to become an EMT, difficult to recruit EMTs, or there was a shortage, wages would be higher. I will also point out that I advocate for increased education and competency for the EMT and Paramedic, and I do hope that wage increase does follow eventually.
I understand that to the outsider (not saying you are) or to the general public, our wages seem artificially low. And certainly compared to jobs that require no formal education, it seems unfair. The reasons and realities of wages in EMS will become all to apparent to you once you become employed at a private EMS provider.
Anyways, thank you for the kind comments. I am just attempting to explain why, from my own experience, I do not believe in wage increases for EMTs at the moment.
My views are summed up with my belief that EMTs have not shown any reason to be paid above the level they are at the moment. The free market supports my statement. If it was difficult to become an EMT, difficult to recruit EMTs, or there was a shortage, wages would be higher. I will also point out that I advocate for increased education and competency for the EMT and Paramedic, and I do hope that wage increase does follow eventually.
I understand that to the outsider (not saying you are) or to the general public, our wages seem artificially low. And certainly compared to jobs that require no formal education, it seems unfair. The reasons and realities of wages in EMS will become all to apparent to you once you become employed at a private EMS provider.
Anyways, thank you for the kind comments. I am just attempting to explain why, from my own experience, I do not believe in wage increases for EMTs at the moment.
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Just for clarification, my statement was that wages are not always consumate with a level of education. Some jobs require less or similar hours and the earning potential is in some cases limited only by the drive and work ethic of the worker.
We are however not at odds with the last paragraph of your most recent post. The one thing I did learn in the EMT-B course I just completed, is that a better fundemental foundation is necessary for a better understanding of the course ciriculum. The EMT-B course just barely scratches the surface of what is needed to become a more proficient provider. Just like anything else the determination of the student is will dictate how far they will go in the EMS field, some will choose the path of least resistance and others will challange themselves to become better providers. Unfortunately the wages will be determined by those who choose the easy way, we always seem to gravitate towards the least common denominator. Perhaps if those like you and others here who advocate for better education persist, we can weed out those who seek the easy way into the profession, and attract those who truely wish to become the best most proficient provider they can be, for the sake of the patient, who deserve a competent well rounded provider.
We are however not at odds with the last paragraph of your most recent post. The one thing I did learn in the EMT-B course I just completed, is that a better fundemental foundation is necessary for a better understanding of the course ciriculum. The EMT-B course just barely scratches the surface of what is needed to become a more proficient provider. Just like anything else the determination of the student is will dictate how far they will go in the EMS field, some will choose the path of least resistance and others will challange themselves to become better providers. Unfortunately the wages will be determined by those who choose the easy way, we always seem to gravitate towards the least common denominator. Perhaps if those like you and others here who advocate for better education persist, we can weed out those who seek the easy way into the profession, and attract those who truely wish to become the best most proficient provider they can be, for the sake of the patient, who deserve a competent well rounded provider.
daedalus
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And I agree. Doing away with the two week wonder EMTs and the 3 month wonder paramedics, and requiring at least an introductory college background in physical and biological science before enrolling into EMS programs will do a lot to weed out our bad apples, and hopefully create a situation where our level of respect as providers and wages increase.
It is clear that employers around here are never going to take that first step of increasing the money, so perhaps we have to take this into our own hands and make it harder to become an EMT. As rid/ryder has said in the past, most other healthcare profession schools protect their field.
2 week EMTs? Wow. Even the full-time courses around here run for at least a month, so I do find that shocking (though if you stick to the bare minimum curriculum, I suppose 2 55-hour weeks is possible, if far from laudible).
One thing that can be said for New Jersey's system is that it keeps the number of paramedics, at least, low. However, because the supply of paramedics is completely at the whim of how many people the MICU programs decide to sponsor, I don't think the reduced supply has lead to a notable increase in wages.
While I agree that more education should lead to higher salaries, I remind you there are plenty of doctors, lawyers, and other highly educated professionals out there not making all that much more than Joe Paramedic, who has two years, maybe, of post-secondary education, as opposed to seven or eight or more years.
The education scheme in healthcare doesn't make all that much sense sometimes. You need a master's degree to be an athletic trainer, and an associate's degree (maybe, if your state doesn't still have diploma schools) to be a nurse. Although maybe nursing is an outlier, because the shortage has kept the base credential from going to BSN, at least in my state, despite the fact that NY went to BSN-required almost twenty years ago, IIRC. Heck, my local community college has a five-year waiting list for ASN programs - in that time, you could go undergrad and be most of the way to an MSN.
Anyway, the point of all this is - more education for prehospital care providers is a good thing. Higher salaries are also a good thing. Merely increasing the educational requirements may not necessarily lead to higher salaries, however.