Ems faq

[trevor1189]

Sorry, but your drivers apparently suck at driving then...

And you make that assumption based on what exactly? :unsure:

 

[JPINFV]

Based on the lack of ability to drive smoothly to the hospital and, basically, do anything else at the same time. I guess the AM/FM radio is off at all times as well. Is the conversation between you and your partner limited to directions and clearing intersections? If any, and I mean any, idle chit chat is involved, then I don't see how a passenger could be any more or less distracting. Of course driving around and not talking when ever the ambulance is in gear is going to get boring real quickly.

Also, to be fair, if I'm driving, the status of the radio (I generally don't care about the station, but I hold sole veto power over the volume) and whether any passengers are up front are solely at my discretion.

 

[trevor1189]

Based on the lack of ability to drive smoothly to the hospital and, basically, do anything else at the same time. I guess the AM/FM radio is off at all times as well. Is the conversation between you and your partner limited to directions and clearing intersections? If any, and I mean any, idle chit chat is involved, then I don't see how a passenger could be any more or less distracting. Of course driving around and not talking when ever the ambulance is in gear is going to get boring real quickly.

Also, to be fair, if I'm driving, the status of the radio (I generally don't care about the station, but I hold sole veto power over the volume) and whether any passengers are up front are solely at my discretion.

The CD/Radio is off on calls. The dispatch radio is on for communication. At least when I'm in the truck.

If any, and I mean any, idle chit chat is involved, then I don't see how a passenger could be any more or less distracting. Because we are not discussing what is going on in the back on the way to a call. Family members tend to be very curious and it is not the job of the driver to know what is going on in the back unless we instruct them to do something specific or pull over and assist. My driver doesn't need to be distracted explaining things while they are trying to drive.

I hope this makes sense to you, I'm not really sure whats so hard to understand, it's for safety concerns. Why add a family member to the ambulance when you already have the patient, two BLS providers on board and possibly one or two ALS providers in the back.

You should look up some pictures of ambulances involved in collisions. It's something I never want to be in, especially with excess people on board.

 

[JPINFV]

I've seen what ambulance accidents look like, however accidents also occur (including a bunch of really nasty ones. Kinda of like this one which cost the attendant her arm...) regardless of if a patient is on board or not or if the ambulance is going anywhere specific. If simple talking or listening to the radio is so distracting while driving the ambulance, then why won't they cause an accident when a patient isn't on board? What I'm trying to figure out is if this is a "No talking period," or "no talking when a patinet is on board." The first means that the driver sucks at driving, the second means that there's a lack of understanding that ambulances crash just as easily without a patient on board as they do with a patient on board.

Yes, the driver's job isn't to know what is going on with the patient. Of course that's also what the sentence, "Unfortunately, I don't know what's going on back there since I'm up here" is for.

 

[Bloom-IUEMT]

Empty my trash, Jake :O

Haha, I credit that saying to you. BTW, congrats on your new paramedic certification!!! May god have mercy on us all!

 

[tazman7]

I've seen what ambulance accidents look like, however accidents also occur (including a bunch of really nasty ones. Kinda of like this one which cost the attendant her arm...) regardless of if a patient is on board or not or if the ambulance is going anywhere specific. If simple talking or listening to the radio is so distracting while driving the ambulance, then why won't they cause an accident when a patient isn't on board? What I'm trying to figure out is if this is a "No talking period," or "no talking when a patinet is on board." The first means that the driver sucks at driving, the second means that there's a lack of understanding that ambulances crash just as easily without a patient on board as they do with a patient on board.

Yes, the driver's job isn't to know what is going on with the patient. Of course that's also what the sentence, "Unfortunately, I don't know what's going on back there since I'm up here" is for.

Im glad to know that you and your partner arent in my town driving hot towards me and my family while listening to music and chit chatting with the stranger in the front with you.

There is no reason for anybody to ride in front besides communication. This is an ambulance, not a taxi cab.

I guess thats what seperates a paramedic being the boss of the ambulance and not a basic.

 

[JPINFV]

Im glad to know that you and your partner arent in my town driving hot towards me and my family while listening to music and chit chatting with the stranger in the front with you.

There is no reason for anybody to ride in front besides communication. This is an ambulance, not a taxi cab.

I guess thats what seperates a paramedic being the boss of the ambulance and not a basic.

I'm so happy I'm not in your town where, apparently, if the ambulance is moving (regardless of if there is a patient, the patient's condition, or even if you're on a call) the lights and sirens are on.

Edit:
Oh, and nice personal attack. I guess the ability to differentiate between using the woo woos (including driving down to the local McDonalds) and not using the woo woos is what separates those of us with degrees and those who went to a medic mill (look, I can play this game too!).

 

[Sasha]

Q. Can I ride up front on the way to hospital?
My partners always know the answer to that is no. The only time that family/friends/etc get to ride in the ambulance is if they are hurt also or I need them in the back for communication purposes (deaf, children, etc). Up front is useless and it just adds possible patients if the ambulance would be in an accident and they tend to distract my driver. Not cool.

My partners know that unless they clear it with me FIRST, family members are told they can ride, but only up front. Seat belted in facing forward is the safest place to be and I don't want them in my way should I have to actually work on that call.

The only exceptions is if they're the parent of a young child, needed for communication, or if it's a hospice patient.

As for the radio, we do some loooong transports. I'd honestly fall asleep if I had to drive 2+ hours on the turnpike with nothing but the tree....tree....tree....tree... to keep my mind awake.

I don't see how it's more distracting with a patient on board than without one.

Im glad to know that you and your partner arent in my town driving hot towards me and my family while listening to music and chit chatting with the stranger in the front with you.

There is no reason for anybody to ride in front besides communication. This is an ambulance, not a taxi cab.

I guess thats what seperates a paramedic being the boss of the ambulance and not a basic.

And I AM a medic. And JP has more education then probably half the medics on this forum, including myself, and I'd pick him to run a call ON me over 90% of the forum.

It's sad when people discredit another simply on their status as basic or medic.

 

[Veneficus]

when I worked on a truck I let family ride wherever they were comfortable as long as it was in a seat with a belt on. Never had any issues. I even have discovered family riding in the back, particularly with terminally ill people to be theraputic for the family.

I figure if i am driving the pt to the hospital, there are a bunch of empty seats, why not help the patient feel better by taking a familiar face and help the family not get into a car accident trying to tail the ambulance? Why cause the patient and family more stress by worrying about how they are getting to the hospital? Reducing anxiety helps people.

Sometimes I would even give the family something to do like copy the med list or hold equipment so they felt like they were helping.

If it were up to me, lights and sirens would be taken off ambulances and they would drive like normal traffic, solves a lot of problems with safety.

 

[Shishkabob]

I guess thats what seperates a paramedic being the boss of the ambulance and not a basic.

Umm.. no. The Paramedic is not the boss of the ambulance. Sure, in charge of patient care, but not of the basic. We're partners.

Yes, I'll pull patch color when it comes to deciding what to do for a patient, because I have a helluva lot more to lose than an EMT, and because the protocols state the Medic makes patient care decisions.




But if it has nothing to do with patient care, the EMT and Medic are equal. Hence them being called "Partners"

 

[JPINFV]

when I worked on a truck I let family ride wherever they were comfortable as long as it was in a seat with a belt on. Never had any issues. I even have discovered family riding in the back, particularly with terminally ill people to be theraputic for the family.

Probably the best instance where family riding in back has helped was a psych transport. 16 y/o schizoaffective teenager going from one in-patient facility to another one. Kid started to have a mood change and get aggressive and the mother told him to STFO and calm down, which he did.

 

[usafmedic45]

And I AM a medic. And JP has more education then probably half the medics on this forum, including myself, and I'd pick him to run a call ON me over 90% of the forum.

So besides JP who else is in that other 10%?

The people I would let touch me on this forum is a very short list:
-JP
-Veneficus
-Epi-Do
-Ridryder911
-Ventmedic (when she's not acting all weird...)
-Sasha (you may be new, but you seem pretty sharp)
-Linuss
-MSDeltaFlight
-Summit (who has been banned if I am not mistaken)
-Mycrofft (when he's not on his 'five is four' bents)
-JTPaintball
..and a few others I am too tired to think of.

 

[TransportJockey]

Im glad to know that you and your partner arent in my town driving hot towards me and my family while listening to music and chit chatting with the stranger in the front with you.

There is no reason for anybody to ride in front besides communication. This is an ambulance, not a taxi cab.

I guess thats what seperates a paramedic being the boss of the ambulance and not a basic.

I might only be an EMT, but you pull that crap about being the boss of hte ambulance and there will be problems. Makes me glad I don't work in your area.

I've done 911 and IFT and had family in the front, and a few times in the back. It doesn't change anything (especially since I rarely hot return anyone). And radio comes on at times too. When I worked in NM I was in the same boat as Sasha about 2+ hour transport times occasionally. Doesn't matter how rested you are, a drive that long at night makes you wanna doze off if you have no stimulation at all.

 

[tazman7]

I'm so happy I'm not in your town where, apparently, if the ambulance is moving (regardless of if there is a patient, the patient's condition, or even if you're on a call) the lights and sirens are on.

Edit:
Oh, and nice personal attack. I guess the ability to differentiate between using the woo woos (including driving down to the local McDonalds) and not using the woo woos is what separates those of us with degrees and those who went to a medic mill (look, I can play this game too!).

Did I mention anything about lights and sirens? No. I was referring to playing music while on calls and letting family or friends ride in the ambulance.
It is our states rule that if the lights are on, the sirens are on. So thats what I follow. I dont go blazing through town with lights and sirens to a call unless we are called code three for something. I worked too hard for my medic license to mess it up by hitting someone when im not supposed to be running hot anyways.

And actually I have a degree too, so get off of your high horse with your medic mill speech.

 

[tazman7]

It's sad when people discredit another simply on their status as basic or medic.

I dont discredit all basics. I was one once too. I dont think that I am better than a basic because I am a medic.
I have just not had the opportunity to work with a good basic yet so I often wonder if they are even teaching them things in school anymore...simple things like putting on a nasal cannula, taking bp, pulse, lung sounds....I can go on and on. Thats why I consider myself the "boss" of the ambulance, because if it wasnt for me babysitting them there would be a lot more problems that I would run into. I dont know if the company I work for just hired a rash of "super emt's" or not but they are a bunch of idiots and I have told management that too.

 

[JPINFV]

Did I mention anything about lights and sirens? No. I was referring to playing music while on calls and letting family or friends ride in the ambulance.

Bad move there partner... You don't want to play revisionist post history with me. Does your area have some sort of magical definition of "driving hot" that differs from, I don't know, the rest of the entire country? Here's your post in case you forgot it...

Im glad to know that you and your partner arent in my town driving hot towards me and my family while listening to music and chit chatting with the stranger in the front with you.

There is no reason for anybody to ride in front besides communication. This is an ambulance, not a taxi cab.

I guess thats what seperates a paramedic being the boss of the ambulance and not a basic.

Emphasis added. So, since apparently your area's definition of "driving hot" is different, what exactly is it? Similarly, the connotation of "Well, golly gee, I hope you aren't driving "hot" (what ever your definition of that is) in my town" when, at exactly no point, have I discussed the radio and anything other than driving (I never mentioned using lights and sirens [you know, everyone elses' definition of "driving hot"]). So, if you're so concerned, you must be driving everywhere with lights and sirens to adopt a "ZOMG no radio no radio no radio no radio" and "no family no family no family no family" philosophy.

I'll restate what I said earlier. If you can't drive with the radio on, you suck at driving.

It is our companies rule that if the lights are on, the sirens are on. So thats what I follow. I dont go blazing through town with lights and sirens to a call unless we are called code three for something. I worked too hard for my medic license to mess it up by hitting someone when im not supposed to be running hot anyways.

I'm so happy that your company apparently treats its employees as idiots. It must be fun driving through town at 2 am with the siren on making sure that the imaginary cars are out of the way.

And actually I have a degree too, so get off of your high horse with your medic mill speech.

Sure, right after you apologize to me for treating me like a blithering idiot because my highest EMS level is EMT-B.

 

[tazman7]

I'll restate what I said earlier. If you can't drive with the radio on, you suck at driving.


I'm so happy that your company apparently treats its employees as idiots. It must be fun driving through town at 2 am with the siren on making sure that the imaginary cars are out of the way.

I am a medic so I hardly ever drive. I concentrate on treating pts who require more than monitoring their vitals on the way to the hospital....

And I work in a town of 200,000+....the roads are never clear. We run a minimum of 12 calls a day.

And actually that is a state rule- a police officer just got charged with murder for hitting and killing someone while responding to a call with only lights on.

 

[Veneficus]

I'm so happy that your company apparently treats its employees as idiots. It must be fun driving through town at 2 am with the siren on making sure that the imaginary cars are out of the way. .

I am not disagreeing with you but I would like to clarify.

In my home state, the law requires that a person who is operating an emergency vehicle in an emergent mode, both lights and sirens must be used together. Using one without the other is illegal by said state law.

Having said that. Operating in an Emergent mode means driving above the posted speed limit, driving left of center, passing in a no passing zone, disregarding traffic signals, driving in the opposite direction as a one way street, and such that would be illegal for any other driver.

There is no law against using your emergency flashers alone if you are following all normal traffic laws. So at 2 am, if you stop at your red lights until they turn green, if you drive the speed limit or lower, etc, you are well within the law.

If you use only your emergency flashers and disobey any normal traffic law, while I don't think for a second you would be cited, if something unfortunate were to happen, you would definately be in trouble not only for what happened, but for not following the law on emergency response as well.

The decision, risk, and responsibility is that of the driver.

 

[JPINFV]

I am a medic so I hardly ever drive. I concentrate on treating pts who require more than monitoring their vitals on the way to the hospital....

Gee, that's nice. Since we like to keep playing these games, in 6-7 years when I'm done with school and residency, I'll be treating patients based on my own judgment, not following some cook book protocols requiring no thought past, "Hmm, which protocol do I follow here." (Hey, this is fun, can we keep this BS up?).

And I work in a town of 200,000+....the roads are never clear. We run a minimum of 12 calls a day.

That's nice... I live in a city of 162,000 in a county of almost 10 million (our cities are rather small in terms of land area. The city I grew up in was 60,000 in 9 sq. miles). You know what? Even in the middle of the night there is not that much traffic. It comes down to driving ability, specifically the ability to not drive like an a-hole.

And actually that is a state rule- a police officer just got charged with murder for hitting and killing someone while responding to a call with only lights on.

You never speed (in your private car or the ambulance when not driving with lights and sirens) then?

Oh, I'm still waiting on your definition of "driving hot" that doesn't include lights and sirens. Thanks for playing though.

 

[JPINFV]

There is no law against using your emergency flashers alone if you are following all normal traffic laws. So at 2 am, if you stop at your red lights until they turn green, if you drive the speed limit or lower, etc, you are well within the law.

I think that driving is a little more nuanced than that. Regardless of siren status, you should be stopping at red lights anyways until it's safe to go through. If you pull up and there's no cars within blocks, then a toot on the siren doesn't do anything as there is no one to warn. I definitely agree, if cars are present in a manner that requires the use of the legal exemptions provided by the ambulance's emergency warning systems, that they should all be engaged. However, this isn't always the case, even in larger cities.