Emergency Medical Responder

[Moserrr]

I took the EMT class, I took the EMR class. I learned the same amount of imformation in both classes.

 

[Summit]

I took the EMT class, I took the EMR class. I learned the same amount of imformation in both classes.

While you could have had a well above average EMR class, it is more likely that you were already prepared by your EMT class for your EMR leaving you with that impression... or perhaps learning the same in both classes is closely related to your being unable to pass EMT as there are several things that should be covered in EMT that are not covered in EMR.

 

[StCEMT]

I took the EMT class, I took the EMR class. I learned the same amount of imformation in both classes.

Regardless of what they did or didn't teach, it doesn't really change the fact that the baseline for pretty much every service is EMT-B. Even then, the general consensus here and among many other providers elsewhere is that the education standards for everything from B to P should be more stringent than they currently are. Nobody here is trying to discourage you from pursing a job in this field, if anything I think we would all say go beyond and try to learn more. Just be realistic with your expectations of what you will be able to do career wise with what you have. More education is a requirement to work in this field, get paid better, etc. @NysEms2117 is the only person I know of here that has anything to do with EMR's and you have seen the role they play at his employer and that role is reflective of the education standards between the three crew members on his truck. The EMR plays a fairly minimal role, he does a bit more due to the higher level of education/job requirement he has, and his partner has a very generous scope of practice it sounds like, which is a reflection of his education as a Critical Care Paramedic.

 

[NysEms2117]

The layout of the truck i work part time on just so everybody is on the same page is as follows:
EMR- Driver/paperwork person -the ccparamedic's narcotics DEA shtuff.
EMT- (myself) assist the critical care paramedic in procedures/treatment of the patient. I hold things, prepare things i know he will need, and get my paramedic partner what he tells me. I also do most of the radio contact with hospitals and other units.
Critical care paramedic- Does all procedures/ interventions on the patient. tells me what to say, or asks me to request certain things.

On some calls my paramedic partner won't even speak to the EMR driver. That's how far away from patient care they are.

I took the EMT class, I took the EMR class. I learned the same amount of information*fixed* in both classes.

get your money back for the EMR class. or sue the EMT class for not teaching nearly enough .

 

[agregularguy]

The only other place I can think that "hires" EMRs was the first volunteer ambulance service I worked at had a few old guys that didn't take the EMT class go through EMR and acted as drivers alone. They did absolutely nothing patient care-wise beyond fetch stairchairs/stretchers and drive the trucks. The medic/basics that were on the shift with them did the rest.

Again, this isn't meant to belittle EMR, but just to state the facts. EMT-B is the ENTRY level in the EMS world. And to be honest, many of us on this board even believe that EMT isn't nearly enough education as an entry level. (What I would give for the whole country to be medic level to start...)

 

[VentMonkey]

I thought EMR was common among large fire departments on the east coast (i.e., FDNY, and Boston Fire)?

Bottom line, OP- if you already have a chip on your shoulder about being the lowest level of certified prehospital provider--which you most certainly sound like you do--either get rid of that chip by doing something about it, or don't and be miserable. It's your choice.

 

[agregularguy]

I thought EMR was common among large fire departments on the east coast (i.e., FDNY, and Boston Fire)?

Bottom line, OP- if you already have a chip on your shoulder about being the lowest level of certified prehospital provider--which you most certainly sound like you do--either get rid of that chip by doing something about it, or don't and be miserable. It's your choice.

Yes, was thinking solely EMS side of things. Most of the paid fire departments I ran around in both NY and MA required EMR at minimum, although many are transitioning to at least EMT.

 

[Old Tracker]

We have several EMRs, but we are very rural. Two of them are paid, one has been on the job for 35 years and does not want to upgrade. He also has several other jobs. The other paid EMR is an EMT in everything except license. He was trained by a prior administration, but does not want to go through the class. He knows the what to do's, but not the whys. Both of these guys have helped in fairly big events. CPR cases, child births, etc.

Down here though, you need to speak Spanish.

Get your EMT cert, it ain't that hard, and you'll be much better off in the long run. I got mine at age 66 and am working on AEMT now, which is pretty much as far a I want to go at my age, but who knows.

 

[VentMonkey]

Down here though, you need to speak Spanish.

¡n'ombre!

 

[hometownmedic5]

You would be unemployable in MA because the cert isnt recongnized in any capacity near what you're looking for. We dont put EMRs on ambulances here. The only place that card would do you any good would be as a firefighter or police officer, and not even much there.

You will also continue to find difficulty finding work as long as you have the attitude that you're "basically an emt". You aren't. I'm sorry that you "worked your butt off" to get through an intermediate band aid course, but the plain fact of the matter is that it isnt much of a class, nor was it ever meant to actually be an occupation. It's an add on skill for the people who are likely to get there before the ambulance so they can do something more than stand there for five minutes until we show up. EMT isn't much longer or much if any harder. Medic school is laughable when compared to an actual medical education(not meaning med school, but calling attention to the difference between training and education).

Let's face it. EMS education in this country isnt impressing anybody, even at the highest level. You aren't at the highest level. In fact, the only person on the EMS spectrum you out rank is Peter Griffin, CPR. The biggest component to being happy and satisfied in life is managing expectations. It seems that somewhere along the road, you got your expectations all out of whack in regards to your EMR cert and what you'd be doing with it. Come back down to earth, recognize that this is the first step in what could be a career(or not) and start to plan a path from here to where you want to be.

 

[DrParasite]

I took the EMT class, I took the EMR class. I learned the same amount of imformation in both classes.

My current EMT class is somewhere in the range of 220 hours. assuming EMR is 80 (and I do think it's closer to 40), that's almost a 3:1 increase in hours. if you didn't learn anything else, than either your instructor was horrible, you didn't pay enough attention, or the course was poorly structured AND you didn't do any of the readings.

Although, if you weren't able to pass the EMT exam after completing the course, and your EMT course didn't cover anything other than what you learned EMR, than I'm pretty sure I can see what you failed the EMT exam.....

 

[Medic27]

My EMT class was 140 hours of instruction, I don't think EMR is 80. We will meet in the middle of @DrParasite said 80. Let's say 60. My class was still double the amount of instruction, I just don't think the two compare very closely. If you slashed my EMT education in half, I would feel like an incompetent son of a gun if I was working on patients. But, perhaps this is just my prerogative.

 

[hometownmedic5]

For as long as we continue to rate our classes by hours, we will continue to look up at the soles of the shoes of educated professionals and wonder why we aren't accepted...

In this context, were having a pointless argument. How many of your precious hours were spent on say c spine procedures, traction splinting, and so on? This is why rating classes based on hours is foolish.

Content people. It's all that matters. I could fill a hundred hours on shoe tying if I had a mind too, but on graduation day all you'd be able to do is tie your shoes.

 

[VFlutter]

I also find it funny when people start debating hours. So to put things into perspective 1 college credit hour is supposedly 37.5 contact hours. So....

Aas. Paramedic 69 credits or 2,587 hrs
Aas. RT is 82 credits or 3,075hrs
BSN is 119 credits or 4,462hrs
DPT is 212 credits or 7,950hrs

I wondering why a 80 or even 200 hr course would not be considered a profession compared to others

 

[NysEms2117]

I also find it funny when people start debating hours. So to put things into perspective 1 college credit hour is supposedly 37.5 contact hours. So....

Aas. Paramedic 69 credits or 2,587 hrs
Aas. RT is 82 credits or 3,075hrs
BSN is 119 credits or 4,462hrs
DPT is 212 credits or 7,950hrs

I wondering why a 80 or even 200 hr course would not be considered a profession compared to others

logic is fun isn't it? why is it i don't get 30$ an hour like you nursing folks do for being an EMT again!!!??? I GOT 5 credits!!

 

[EpiEMS]

DPT is 212 credits or 7,950hrs

To be fair, the marginal benefit of a DPT is questionable, at best. It's pure curricular inflation from what I've been able to find.

But to your point more generally - the number of hours of training/education/etc. is not really a useful way to look at things. Rather, we should be concerned with improvement in outcomes.

 

[VFlutter]

To be fair, the marginal benefit of a DPT is questionable, at best. It's pure curricular inflation from what I've been able to find.

But to your point more generally - the number of hours of training/education/etc. is not really a useful way to look at things. Rather, we should be concerned with improvement in outcomes.

I agree, like everything else there is a bell curve or plateau and eventually adding more onto a curriculum does not necessarily yield better results.

And not to derail the thread but it still highlights an important concept that EMS does not understand. For all of these professions the increase in educational requirements came before the increase in pay and professional standing. Most recently DPTs still make the same as they did when a Masters was the minimum level of entry however now they are making pushes for increased reimbursement, more responsibilities, etc.

 

[EpiEMS]

@Chase, I think you're spot on.

For all of these professions the increase in educational requirements came before the increase in pay and professional standing.

This is totally true - though, realistically, I don't think folks in EMS are necessarily willing to put themselves out there for this...

 

[hometownmedic5]

@Chase, I think you're spot on.



This is totally true - though, realistically, I don't think folks in EMS are necessarily willing to put themselves out there for this...

I don't think I agree with that. For sure, there are people that are past the point in their career where it would be a fiscally intelligent decision to invest time and money(and lost time where they could have made more money)in a degree that might not even pay itself off; but there are plenty of people halfway or less through their career who could benefit from increased wages and stature.

If I was guaranteed, or at least had a high degree of confidence, that the juice would be worth the squeeze, I would absolutely go get a degree. Sadly, the position I'm in right now, I wouldn't see one thin dime more in my paycheck so it doesn't make sense.

 

[EpiEMS]

@hometownmedic5 I certainly *hope* that people would be willing to, I just don't see much of a push in the bulk of the EMS community (anecdotally) towards more education.