Does a patient have the right to refuse?

[tydek07]

A patient has a right to dictate who touches them, man, woman, black, white or green.

Isn't there a religion or region or something that forbids men being taken care of by a woman or woman being cared for by a man or something?

Yah, I have run into that before. It was when I was in medic school and at my OB clinical. I could not go into the delivery room because I was male, her husband even waited outside of the room. She only allowed females in the room during the delivery, female docs/nurses/everyone.
Haha, Kinda upset me, as that would have been my last delivery sitting in on and I would have been done :wacko: O-well, gotta follow their rules.

Take Care,
Tyler

 

[SpudCrushr]

a patient who has reached the age of majority and has been deemed capable of cognitive thought can refuse tx/tp for whatever reason they so choose.

Exactly. Funny story too...however it's a shame people are like that. Guys out there risking his health / life and you're (parient) going to be jerk and refuse, because he is black?!!

That's just stupid.

 

[MedicPrincess]

We have a college here. Women on one side of campus. Men on the other. The only time the two shall meet on campus is for class and meal periods and then women on one side of the room and use a particular entrance/exit, men the other. They do not ride in the same elevators as one another. They are never alone with the opposide sex, contact with opposite sex is extremely limited.

There have been more than one instances of EMS being called and a Male/Female crew responding and a rather large fuss is made by the people on campus when the M/F crew enters the building together, gets in the elevator, ect. Attempts to block the "offending" genders actions have been made (attempting to get the F member to use the correct door or correct elevator on the other side of the building). And refusals have been taken on patients that met all criteria otherwise simply because the Medic on the crew was the opposite sex of the pt. At the same time, LE as been requested because the pt was experiencing some sort of life threatening condition and "bystanders" were interferring with tx d/t gender of responding crew.

Yes, the pt has the right. Our service would make the effort as resources allow to get a crew to the patient, or a supervisor, to assist in getting the patient the tx they were originally seeking.

 

[FF894]

Sounds like a cult college. It's interesting that the students always comply; one would think this environment would almost promote the desire to be with the oposite sex in the back of an ambulance, let alone actual sex. What is the penalty for being in the elevator together I wonder?

 

[BossyCow]

A patient has the right to refuse treatment. This is different from Pt has the right to determine the race, gender, creed, hair length or other characteristic of their healthcare provider.

Being able to say.. "No.. I do not want you to treat me" is a basic right of the patient. We are under no obligation to change or alter our crew in order to accomodate the pts reasons.

That said, if I have a pt who is made uncomfortable by a responder who is too young, wrong gender or the brother of the guy who dumped her best friend's sister... and I have another volunteer who is there and able to provide care, I will certainly do what I can to ease the pts anxiety level. My job is not to pass judgement on the patient's maturity, tolerance, or gender sensitivity. My job is to provide healthcare. Some of our pts are a-holes. But they are still sick and need transport. Am I going to use that moment in their lives to ram home a lesson in tolerance? Heck no! Not my job, not my place, not my responsibility.

But, if the only available responder is black and the pt is a white supremacist refusing care.. well.. Goodbye, sign here, thank you for playing. Bob tell him what he's won!"

 

[Ridryder911]

Do you think a hospital (ER) would have to get another physician based upon race, gender? I worked with a black, female physician and living in the southern mid-West, there are still racial tones occasionally. I would inform those that would make sly remarks that they have a right to choose another hospital. We cannot nor should make any preferential care because of bigotry. Our responsibility is only to offer a well qualified professional individual that perform the care needed. Anything else past that is out of reason as a customer or client, in other words we have met our obligation.

R/r 911

 

[BossyCow]

So really, there are two issues in this question

1. Does the patient have the right to refuse treatment for a stupid reason?

2. How far do we have to go in response to their stupidity?

 

[FF894]

So really, there are two issues in this question

1. Does the patient have the right to refuse treatment for a stupid reason?

2. How far do we have to go in response to their stupidity?

Yes

Sign here please

 

[Ridryder911]

1. Does the patient have the right to refuse treatment for a stupid reason?

2. How far do we have to go in response to their stupidity?

Patients always have the right to refuse any treatment, transport as long as they are not declared incompetent and are informed of the risk/benefits.

How far do we have to go? As far as our normal operations are or does not jeopardize the system or care.

R/r 911

 

[TomB]

anybody who meets the refusal criteria. seriously. this is my speach:

sir/ma'am: im required to inform you of the following. at this time, i am unable to completely establish whether or not you are suffering from a potentially life threatening illness/injury. the only person able to make that determination is a physician at the hospital. while i can not force you to go or take you against your will, i can strongly recommend that you allow me to transport you their for further evaluation. should you choose to refuse treatment or transportation, you accept full responsibility for any further progression of your injury or illness. you understand that this could include permanent disability or death. do you wish to be treated and transported or do you wish to refuse the services offered?"

I think that's a horrible speech, but I'm more interested in the refusal criteria. What are they and how do you determine if they are met?

 

[KEVD18]

well its works out marvelously. ever run into a person being pressured not to go by friends and family, but you really think they need to go? most people with half a brain cant look past you might die.

besides, my protocols require me to inform all refusal patients that in the event of a refusal of care, they assume all responsibility for what happens up to and including death.

criteria for refusal:

over the age of 18 or
an emancipated minor or
a person reasonably sure they are pregnant(ive never really been able to nail someone to the wall on how we would verify this prehospital but nonetheless its in the book).

sufficiently mentating. most people go with the basci questions: date, location, some sort of alarmingly obvious type of question like whe the sitting president is.


thats basically it. you can have a leg amped mid femur and be bleeding like a stuck pig but if you're an adult and are adequately mentating, you can decline to let me tx/tp you.

 

[rmellish]

Legally we are required to provide standard care.

Patients can refuse said care for whatever reason they choose, but we don't need to provide different flavors of care to suit their religion, gender, or even underlying bigotry. We just need to provide the standard.

 

[para82frame]

As long as they are not mentally altered or a minor they have a right to refuse care.

 

[Anomalous]

That patient should be made to ether be transported with the ONE crew on scene, or signed out and fined and/or arrested for wasting 911 resources.

And billed.

 

[Anomalous]

... ive had elderly patients who adamantly wanted to die in their own home. children show up and cant handle the though of letting mommy/daddy go so they call us. patient meets the criteria, sign here.

Good point. A lot of family members get upset when they find out they can't refuse/accept care for elders who are competant.

 

[Scout]

Right i've spent 3 days writtign this, so its either going to be very well laid out or totally disjointed.


So you dispatched to a male on female "assault", girl goes nuts as you walk in the door (male x2) do you go here love sign this and we are on our way. How would that look? Are you not supposed to do your best to comfort her? Is she of unfit mind because she is not thinking rationally, will you get PD to restrain her.


Now if you walked in on a man who had been "slapped" by his GF and you get a wavier that seems less wrong. I can’t see any eye brows being raised by that. I mean the man should be able to take care of himself, been to Iraq twice. He's ok.



What about religion, open to correction but are there not Jewish ambulances that will only serve their faith?



I have noticed It appears to be ok for the female sex to have sexist preferances, it happens here all the time and a female can rightful request a female doc to treat her.
Would it be ok for me to insist i had a male treat me because i feel females are inferior? Or because I felt like it.

 

[Sasha]

Right i've spent 3 days writtign this, so its either going to be very well laid out or totally disjointed.


So you dispatched to a male on female "assault", girl goes nuts as you walk in the door (male x2) do you go here love sign this and we are on our way. How would that look? Are you not supposed to do your best to comfort her? Is she of unfit mind because she is not thinking rationally, will you get PD to restrain her.


Now if you walked in on a man who had been "slapped" by his GF and you get a wavier that seems less wrong. I can’t see any eye brows being raised by that. I mean the man should be able to take care of himself, been to Iraq twice. He's ok.



What about religion, open to correction but are there not Jewish ambulances that will only serve their faith?



I have noticed It appears to be ok for the female sex to have sexist preferances, it happens here all the time and a female can rightful request a female doc to treat her.
Would it be ok for me to insist i had a male treat me because i feel females are inferior? Or because I felt like it.

I don't think it's an inferiority complex. A lot of the times the women request such because they feel more comfortable with another woman. Maybe she's body shy, or maybe her father/brother/husband/uncle/ex boyfriend/some dude off the street beat and raped her and she doesn't like men touching her.

I think a lot of the "Omg, you're a male, how dare you request another male" mumbo jumbo comes from years of woman being "Second class" citizens and someone's just looking to be offended. Some people aren't happy unless they have something to be offended at

 

[Scout]

..... A lot of the times the women request such because they feel more comfortable with another woman. ........................

I think a lot of the ........ comes from years of woman being "Second class" citizens ........

so is it ok to choode your provider based on the grounds of sex, but only if our a female, both reasons you have citted relate to an event in the past that have no bearing on the present EMS provider.

 

[Sasha]

so is it ok to choode your provider based on the grounds of sex, but only if our a female, both reasons you have citted relate to an event in the past that have no bearing on the present EMS provider.

THe first scenario can have major mental ramifications that create complexes and require years of therapy to work out. It DOES have a bearing on the present EMS provider if it causes the patient more stress to have that EMS or medical provider touch and/or assess them.

And never did I say it was ok for just females. If a male had some past trauma resulting from a female or was body shy he should be more than welcome to request a male provider.

 

[KEVD18]

i would tell all of those patients the same thing. you called for help. here i am. in all practicalty, i might as well be a unich(i think thats how its spelled). im here to provide you emergency medical care and transportation. do you want my help?

if yes, proceede.

if no, see above speach, sign here and back in service.

my ambulance service isnt baskin robbins. you either take what you get or sort yourself out.