degrees for all paramedics 10 year plan

I don't see a jump from most states requiring just a cert to all requiring a bachelors that quickly. It will have to start at an associates first.

Simply stated, the average salary does not warrant a bachelors, therefor people will not go to school for 4 years to get the average paltry wages, just for the 'hope', that it will be increased in the future.


Starting at an associates, then increasing the pay somewhat, THEN moving to a bachelors is a lot more feasible.

That's fine with me. If the number of qualified medics drops, the market forces will raise their compensation. Right now we have a dirth of minimally qualified and undercompensated medics. Requiring higher educational standards is a win-win for all.
 
I don't think you can jump from a completely disparate array of glorified first aid courses, back room fire brigade add ons and perhaps more importantly,a general attitude that all of this is okay, and go all the way to uniform 4 year degrees. I think it would be almost impossible, even if you had the promise of much better wages right from the beginning.

We went from a basically state wide associates degree (or at least what might be called an *** in the US), to a bachelors involving a few universities and 3 government mandated services (that then became one services) with some advancements in scope etc. Vastly simpler than what has been suggested here. Ten years later, we're still struggling with some of the broader brush strokes let alone the details. Wages are a very big part of that.


All that systemic upheaval, people being left without jobs, different systems in different areas with different cultures struggling to conform to a one size fits all approach.... without any promise of improved pay. Not ganna happen.
 
I don't think you can jump from a completely disparate array of glorified first aid courses, back room fire brigade add ons and perhaps more importantly,a general attitude that all of this is okay, and go all the way to uniform 4 year degrees. I think it would be almost impossible, even if you had the promise of much better wages right from the beginning.

We went from a basically state wide associates degree (or at least what might be called an *** in the US), to a bachelors involving a few universities and 3 government mandated services (that then became one services) with some advancements in scope etc. Vastly simpler than what has been suggested here. Ten years later, we're still struggling with some of the broader brush strokes let alone the details. Wages are a very big part of that.


All that systemic upheaval, people being left without jobs, different systems in different areas with different cultures struggling to conform to a one size fits all approach.... without any promise of improved pay. Not ganna happen.

You are conflating the merger of the services with the change to pre-employment degree based education. Changing to degree based education happened well before the merger occurred. It also didn't really change anything from an organisational culture perspective, except possibly to introduce another layer of belligerence from those who feel threatened by advancement. The merger of course did change things, most notably due to the crippling debt taken on when the rural service came into the fold, and it is this to which you refer with different systems, approaches, cultures and redundancies. That is nothing to do with degree-based education.

However, prior to degree based education in Victoria there was very much a "one size fits all" approach, with everyone taking the same course at the same place. Now there are 6 universities within Victoria alone offering under-graduate, conversion and post-graduate courses, and all the small variations that come with that: hardly one size fits all.

Indeed, it could be argued that in the US there already is a "one size fits all" approach, as the curriculum for EMT, EMT-P, whatever, is standardised by the DOT as well.

Of course there will be some education providers that are better, some that are worse. There will be some areas that require further education, some that are happy with the baseline. This is the status quo already; true for whatever industry you care to discuss; and not particularly important when considered in the context of an overall raising of that baseline.

I agree that the strange attitude of some parts of US EMS where poor education is not only accepted, but somehow glorified and actively pursued will be a very difficult thing to manage.
 
With many health systems nationwide striving to achieve magnet status... the 2 year RN is soon to be going the way of the LPN. BSN is quickly becoming the gold standard.

+1000 Most hospitals are moving towards exclusively hiring BSN new grads and making their current AD RNs go back to school if they want to keep their charge nurse positions.
 
Yup, we do; I believe Washington is the only other state to require it as well.
It's actually Iowa of all places; Washington doesn't, but they at least do require the school (no matter what state it was in) to be accredited by a national body; generally CAAHEP. And thanks to that worthless mother:censored:ing piece of :censored: state rep who should be taken out behind the barn and shot (not that I'm advocating that in any way, shape, or form) from Gresham, Oregon no longer strictly requires a degree, or that you be working on it during your initial temporary certification. Thanks to the above :censored:heel, now as long as you have "worked" for 4 out of the last 5 years in another state as a parawannabe you can pop right in.

Yeah. I'm still bitter about that.
 
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Every other country with degree minimum paramedics has managed to pay for it.?
Yes, and not to say that it can't or shouldn't be done, but generally the countries that have done that have a very different way of running their healthcare system. The difference in size really isn't as big a hurdle as this.
Probably, though that really isn't a sure thing. Speaking from personal experience in an area where a degree has (had now) been required for some years, it doesn't always improve the level of care, or at least not by that much. Even if there were only small gains it would still be worth it, and the care may be better here than elsewhere, but just having the degree is not an automatic fix.
 
Iowa doesn't require paramedics to be a paramedic.
 
Iowa doesn't require paramedics to be a paramedic.

Ouch.. Come on JP that was low. After much headaches iemsa got the ' iowa paramedics' (or I99's to the rest of the world) to be phased out in the transitions to the new NREMT classifications. Eventually (next 6 years I believe) only recognize four levers. First responder, emt, aemt and paramedic.. With the CCP endorsment still recognized for paramedics
 
The problem is that it's true. It would be like a state saying, "We need more physicians, so we're going to license PAs and NPs as physicians and give them an unrestricted license to practice medicine too!" It's why, despite being an "EMT-I" for 4 years, I never used that designation because it would be misinterpreted as "EMT-Intermediate" and not as "EMT-One." Similarly, even the handful of times I've seen employers or counties use an "EMT-I" designation, they would normally substitute the Roman numeral for a "1."
 
Oh I agree with you completely. Thankfully they did not allow them to practice as full medics, only called them medics. Which arguably could be worse, telling the public they are getting a medic when in reality you are getting an intermediate 99.
 
Yes... some might call themselves medics, but in Iowa it has the same connotation as somebody elsewhere saying I'm an intermediate. For example, I am not a "medic", I am a Paramedic Specialist, and my equal would not be a medic, they would be a PS.

The public has no idea anyway of what they are getting. But the EMSers here know the levels and use the Iowa-specific vocab.
 
UT San Antonio offers B.S in Emergency Medical Services
 
Yes... some might call themselves medics, but in Iowa it has the same connotation as somebody elsewhere saying I'm an intermediate. For example, I am not a "medic", I am a Paramedic Specialist, and my equal would not be a medic, they would be a PS.

The public has no idea anyway of what they are getting. But the EMSers here know the levels and use the Iowa-specific vocab.

The problem is when those people go someplace outside of Iowa and continue to call themselves a paramedic when they aren't.
 
The problem is that it's true. It would be like a state saying, "We need more physicians, so we're going to license PAs and NPs as physicians and give them an unrestricted license to practice medicine too!" It's why, despite being an "EMT-I" for 4 years, I never used that designation because it would be misinterpreted as "EMT-Intermediate" and not as "EMT-One." Similarly, even the handful of times I've seen employers or counties use an "EMT-I" designation, they would normally substitute the Roman numeral for a "1."

I love the new guys from Cali that have EMT-II on their uniforms then they see mine with just EMT-I and think I'm a basic. "Sorry guys, you lose, I'm the same thing as you and I don't look like a goober with two I's on my shirt.
 
Thank God California went to the EMR/EMT/AEMT/Paramedic nomenclature a year and a half ago.
 
Thank God California went to the EMR/EMT/AEMT/Paramedic nomenclature a year and a half ago.

Never thought I'd see the day that JPINFV had something good to say about California EMS. Maybe the Mayans were correct.

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I think California generally has a good top level (statutes, state level EMS Authority, etc) with terrible ground level operations (the worst of fire based EMS, restrictive protocols, etc).
 
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