Coronavirus Discussion Thread

RedBlanketRunner

Opheophagus Hannah Cuddler
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Sadly, this was a matter of just when this would happen.

That is a WTF moment of near biblical proportions. Along the lines of too improbable for a plot in a cheap Hollywood B movie. How did homo erectus manage to get this far in evolution without being outclassed by wombats and penguins?

BTW, just a voice in the wilderness, a small objective point of view from left field; congrats extended to the US medical profession in general for flattening the mortality curve. That this is being done during a near exponential rise in infections makes the effort all the more impressive.
And a question along this line. Is there any particular effort or aspect that stands out in the mortality reduction?


And a PS. While this man assumed the position of PM through a coup, he is conducting himself and the government in an exemplary manner in response to the pandemic. The humility he displayed in this public statement is very impressive. Pardon me for saying it, but a counterpoint to what's going on in the US. https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1951312/prayut-apologises-vows-to-step-up-measures
It's all the more impressive in that the apology was made in the orient where face and the face game runs and rules the entire social structure.
 
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RedBlanketRunner

Opheophagus Hannah Cuddler
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Wish I could post this picture. An associate's friend in Wuhan who was born and raised in New York. Fully covered in PPEs Arms folded over his chest, Almost up to his knees in flood water. Captioned, 'Going to work. Isn't this just dandy. Imagine the Hudson rising 15 feet overnight.'
 

RedBlanketRunner

Opheophagus Hannah Cuddler
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Hospital data on coronavirus patients will now be rerouted to the Trump administration instead of first being sent to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Department of Health and Human Services confirmed on Tuesday.

First rule when invading another country. Seize the lines of communication and control the media news sources.
 

ffemt8978

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Hospital data on coronavirus patients will now be rerouted to the Trump administration instead of first being sent to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Department of Health and Human Services confirmed on Tuesday.

First rule when invading another country. Seize the lines of communication and control the media news sources.
Once again, source for your claim?

Also, and this goes for everyone, the political commentary has no place in this thread unless it specifically pertains to COVID-19 and treatments.
 
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PotatoMedic

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Once again, source for your claim?

Also, and this goes for everyone, the political commentary has no place in this threas unless it specifically pertains to COVID-19 and treatments.
 

ffemt8978

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I had seen that too, was just trying to get him to start posting links to the source of his claims. There's been more than enough unsupported claims about this disease.
 

Summit

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That reporting switch took a better part of my day. Ugh.

Having data on infection not go to CDC is just bizarre.
 

Jim37F

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I'm more confused by the "1st rule of invasion, seize lines of communication..." bit

Not like changing the reporting chain is in prep for invading anything. CDC and HHS are both federal government branches, and if anything the media is going to become even more critical of him for this...
 

mgr22

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I'm more confused by the "1st rule of invasion, seize lines of communication..." bit

Not like changing the reporting chain is in prep for invading anything. CDC and HHS are both federal government branches, and if anything the media is going to become even more critical of him for this...

Well, yes. It's newsworthy, so I'd expect the news media to cover it. As for criticism, can you think of a compelling reason that isn't self-serving to shunt COVID-19 information away from the CDC?
 

ffemt8978

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Well, yes. It's newsworthy, so I'd expect the news media to cover it. As for criticism, can you think of a compelling reason that isn't self-serving to shunt COVID-19 information away from the CDC?
There is some merit to that, but that is a lot different than comparing it to invading a country and taking over the media. Those type of political conspiracies belong over at Reddit.
 

GMCmedic

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Well, yes. It's newsworthy, so I'd expect the news media to cover it. As for criticism, can you think of a compelling reason that isn't self-serving to shunt COVID-19 information away from the CDC?
I suspect, just knowing how much of a narcissist Trump is, that theyre looking for irregularities in the data to prove his inital assertion that Covid isnt that big of a deal.
 
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Akulahawk

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Well, yes. It's newsworthy, so I'd expect the news media to cover it. As for criticism, can you think of a compelling reason that isn't self-serving to shunt COVID-19 information away from the CDC?
It could be that the administration doesn't trust that they're getting good data from the CDC. Thus they're requiring the data be sent to another agency within the DHHS. I'd be surprised if CDC doesn't receive the info as well but it would have to be forwarded to them. If the CDC is filtering their "output" through a political lens, that's a problem as that's not supposed to be what they do.

The CDC is supposed to be an apolitical entity but occasionally they aren't. A couple decades ago, they got slapped pretty hard because they were advocating for gun control so funding toward advocating for gun control was cut to zero. They're still (and always have been) able to study morbidity and mortality in the setting of firearm-related injury and death. I suspect that the administration is concerned that the CDC isn't being apolitical in this particular instance (regarding COVID19). I doubt this move was undertaken as a "spur of the moment" thing, but we probably won't see the internal stuff going on that prompted this to happen, so it's a surprise to many.
 
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Akulahawk

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I suspect, just knowing how much of a narcissist Trump is, that theyre looking for irregularities in the data to prove his inital assertion that Covid isnt that big of a deal.
Well within the realm of possibilities. Also possible is that the CDC may be "cooking the books" somewhat. After all, any death where a person is infected with COVID 19/Sars CoV2 at the time of death is counted as a "COVID 19 death" even if the cause of death clearly isn't COVID 19.
 

ffemt8978

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It could be that the administration doesn't trust that they're getting good data from the CDC. Thus they're requiring the data be sent to another agency within the DHHS. I'd be surprised if CDC doesn't receive the info as well but it would have to be forwarded to them. If the CDC is filtering their "output" through a political lens, that's a problem as that's not supposed to be what they do.

The CDC is supposed to be an apolitical entity but occasionally they aren't. A couple decades ago, they got slapped pretty hard because they were advocating for gun control so funding toward advocating for gun control was cut to zero. They're still (and always have been) able to study morbidity and mortality in the setting of firearm-related injury and death. I suspect that the administration is concerned that the CDC isn't being apolitical in this particular instance (regarding COVID19). I doubt this move was undertaken as a "spur of the moment" thing, but we probably won't see the internal stuff going on that prompted this to happen, so it's a surprise to many.
That is a distinct possibility.
 

RedBlanketRunner

Opheophagus Hannah Cuddler
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The CDC is supposed to be an apolitical entity but occasionally they aren't.
On the other hand, HHS is a cabinet level executive branch of the government with numerous political appointees and ultimately answers to the president.

First rule when invading another country. Seize the lines of communication and control the media news sources.
Pardon the analogy. America is at war, with Covid-19. The war has become politicized. Turned into a media 3 ring circus, and somebody who specializes in sandbagging, gaslighting and misinformation is desperately trying to be in the center ring.
The medical profession is in very serious trouble if necessary, even vital information, is being withheld from them. As if I needed to spell that out.

Simply put, the CDC is populated mostly by members of the medical profession. It's ridiculous, even farcical that it is being compared to the political paper pushers of HHS.

PS If I don't cite references it is usually because the noise I make is open knowledge and everyone can, and should, be doing their own research. Snatch the text, open a few windows, and fire the text off to at least a half dozen search engines. It takes all of 10 seconds and you will then have far far more data than I could possibly give you from numerous sources, hopefully with opposing viewpoints so you can reach your own conclusions.
 
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Akulahawk

Akulahawk

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On the other hand, HHS is a cabinet level executive branch of the government with numerous political appointees and ultimately answers to the president.
This is true. However, since the DHHS is the "parent" organization of the CDC, moving the reporting from the CDC to another entity (or DHHS itself), isn't too far of a "move." Doing so is rather unusual and given that the CDC is an entity entirely within the executive branch, the White House should be able to provide oversight, without doing this. However, given the unusualness of this action, I have a feeling that this was done because of something the CDC was doing (or not doing) vs the White House wanting better control over information dissemination or collection.

Putting my managerial hat on, if I have several employees that I'm in charge of, and one of them isn't doing something correctly, but I still need that employee do continue performing other functions, instead of "firing" the "bad" employee, I'm going to reassign the task to someone else and if I want to publicly shame that "bad actor" employee, I'm going to make sure everyone knows the task was reassigned. That also serves as a warning to the "new" person to whom I've reassigned that task. Do it correctly or I'll give it to someone else that can. I want reliable data... good, bad, or ugly. I need to know the actual situation so I can make better decisions. Simple explanation. Simpler is usually correct. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turns out to be basically something along these lines.
 

RedBlanketRunner

Opheophagus Hannah Cuddler
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@Akulahawk Informative.
I can't comment further on HHS as I'm strongly prejudiced. It was under the auspices of HHS that women on reservations were informed tubal ligation was reversible. This went on for several years.

A friend of my sister was scheduled for tubal ligation as a form of birth control. She asked me about the procedure. Further investigation on my part and others revealed this was a common practice. Several women on our reservation had already undergone the procedure. Each was informed it was reversible.
 
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Akulahawk

Akulahawk

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@Akulahawk Informative.
I can't comment further on HHS as I'm strongly prejudiced. It was under the auspices of HHS that women on reservations were informed tubal ligation was reversible. This went on for several years.

A friend of my sister was scheduled for tubal ligation as a form of birth control. She asked me about the procedure. Further investigation on my part and others revealed this was a common practice. Several women on our reservation had already undergone the procedure. Each was informed it was reversible.
Considering that IHS is under HHS, and that IHS has done some really shady stuff in the past, I'm not at all surprised you'd be strongly biased against HHS. Just as IHS is, CMS, FDA, CDC, and NIH all are under the HHS. Because of this, I would normally expect you to cast a wary eye toward CDC as well...
 

RedBlanketRunner

Opheophagus Hannah Cuddler
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Because of this, I would normally expect you to cast a wary eye toward CDC as well...
Very wary. But fortunately there are CDCs the world over to compare to and on the whole the US is toeing the line. Actually a bit more lax and tolerant than many other countries. Fauci's equivalent in some countries has got the local politicians hiding in closets and under rocks.
 
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RedBlanketRunner

Opheophagus Hannah Cuddler
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We had a similar situation to the C-19 response in the US. The ministry of tourism and the local provincial governments downplayed, sandbagged, the disease prevalence. Tourism=big $$$$. Then along came a woman with degrees in pathology and forensics. Pure cut to the chase and hold nothing back. She read the politicians the riot act earning her the nickname the Iron Lady. Often went out in the field and got her hands dirty doing her own research. She eventually moved up to the position approximately that of Fauci. The floodgates broke, people were well informed of the various diseases as they occurred and the entire country had a trend in cleaning up their act.
Thailand can attribute a lot of it's response and actions today to the precedents she set. Not that the ministry of tourism is exactly overjoyed. They went from a powerhouse that gave orders to the prime minister, literally, to a soft voice in the wilderness during this pandemic.
 
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