Common Nomenclature

The public barely understands the difference between say, EMT or Paramedic or Intensive Care Paramedic or whatever
Healthcare personnel barely understand the difference (unless they work very closely with ambulance personnel)
The differences are not significantly important

Everybody becomes a "Paramedic" and then there's a different scope or adjunct title or whatever, but at heart, everybody is a "Paramedic". Just like Nursing has three thousand different titles (or so it seems!) but each is a Registered Nurse underneath. If you are the beginning, you're a Primary Care Paramedic, if you're at the top you're an Intensive Care Paramedic ... if you work on the low acuity car you can be a Specialist Paramedic in Urgent Community Care, or whatever.

I've seen it with my own eyes, and I guarantee you the public or the hospital won't give two sh!ts about it. It'll be a good thing. So honestly, having been through this before, get over whatever anxiety is held about "but the public will be confused" because the public doesn't know the difference, nor do they care, nor does it ever come up, like ever, never, never ever seen or heard of it, ever. As a profession, you blokes have already decided what qualification is required for whatever levels you have and on and on, nobody else decided for you, and nobody else is going to decide to do this, it has to be something the profession owns.

Sure, it will require some forms to be updated, some new uniforms or rank slides, and your professional body or agency will also likely need to update itself, but that shouldn't be too hard.
 
I don't mean to be blunt, but I'm getting tired of this. While I think we all appreciate the intent behind your input, you don't know d!ck about American EMS and your opinions are all but useless.



SpecialK said:
The public barely understands the difference between say, EMT or Paramedic or Intensive Care Paramedic or whatever
Healthcare personnel barely understand the difference (unless they work very closely with ambulance personnel)
The differences are not significantly important

Everybody becomes a "Paramedic" and then there's a different scope or adjunct title or whatever, but at heart, everybody is a "Paramedic". Just like Nursing has three thousand different titles (or so it seems!) but each is a Registered Nurse underneath. If you are the beginning, you're a Primary Care Paramedic, if you're at the top you're an Intensive Care Paramedic ... if you work on the low acuity car you can be a Specialist Paramedic in Urgent Community Care, or whatever.

I've seen it with my own eyes, and I guarantee you the public or the hospital won't give two sh!ts about it. It'll be a good thing. So honestly, having been through this before, get over whatever anxiety is held about "but the public will be confused" because the public doesn't know the difference, nor do they care, nor does it ever come up, like ever, never, never ever seen or heard of it, ever. As a profession, you blokes have already decided what qualification is required for whatever levels you have and on and on, nobody else decided for you, and nobody else is going to decide to do this, it has to be something the profession owns.

Sure, it will require some forms to be updated, some new uniforms or rank slides, and your professional body or agency will also likely need to update itself, but that shouldn't be too hard.
Click to expand...
 
SpecialK said:
I guarantee you the public or the hospital won't give two sh!ts about it. It'll be a good thing. So honestly, having been through this before, get over whatever anxiety is held about "but the public will be confused" because the public doesn't know the difference, nor do they care, nor does it ever come up, like ever, never, never ever seen or heard of it, ever. As a profession, you blokes have already decided what qualification is required for whatever levels you have and on and on, nobody else decided for you, and nobody else is going to decide to do this, it has to be something the profession owns.
Click to expand...
I think he's 100% right on this one.

Paramedics will be butthurt that all levels EMT providers are called paramedics, because they are much better than EMTs. EMTs will be happy (or won't care) that everyone on the ambulance will be a paramedic, so the public will understand what they do. Intermediates, CCs, and AEMTs will still be in limbo, because paramedics will say "why don't you just upgrade to full paramedics, because we are so much better than you." because among many paramedics, if you don't have a P card, you know nothing when it comes to EMS other than a lowly ambulance driver. And because many agencies have to pay grades, one for EMTs, and one for Paramedics, so if you aren't a paramedic, you make EMT pay.

IMO, the only thing this will do is give everyone in EMS a common title (similar to every guy on a fire truck is a firefighter, and every cop is a police office). Similar to the certificate vs license (which many people made a huge deal about), it's window dressing. If you feel EMS in undervalued now, than with the new names it will still be undervalued. If you think the education now is lacking, with the name change it will still be lacking.

The PARAMEDICS insisted on being separate from the rest of the EMS providers (hence the change from EMT-P to NR-P, because they are so much more than EMTs), and while may be a valid request, it runs contrary to unifying all prepositional providers.

The hospitals might know the difference (although I have been asked by more than one doctor why a BLS crew didn't start an IV on the very stable patient), but I think they will roll their eyes at the EMTs who are super proud of being paramedics, and still realize that there different levels of EMTs. But the public still won't care.

I've met some really stupid EMTs, and I've met some really stupid paramedics. and I have worked with some really stupid EMTs who became really stupid paramedics. And I know some really good paramedics that have been doing the job for 30 years, and have nothing more than a high school diploma. and I know one scary paramedic who has her PhD (albeit not in EMS but still). So I think sometimes people need to understand that formal education doesn't always equal competency in a field.

You want to raise standards, by increasing the education requirements, nationwide? lets do it. Grandfather everyone who is certified by the end of 2018, everyone else has to make the new requirements by the time they renew their certifications. But make sure you get buy-in from all the stakeholders... This includes every fire department that does EMS, every fire department that runs an ambulance, every police department that does EMS (there are still a few), every private 911 ambulance system, every private IFT agency, and every regulatory agency that handles EMS. And that doesn't even include all the volunteers....

We always complain how fractured EMS is, especially at the national level. We can't speak with one voice, because we have so many interests who are always trying to make their needs more important than their peers. This make everyone on the ambulance a paramedic, which is more recognizable to the public than EMT. And it puts everyone on the ambulance under the same title, because we all do the same job (take people to the hospital), despite having different levels of education and different roles on the ambulance.

In the grand scheme of things, if WE want to move this profession forward, WE need to speak with one voice, and be unified under ONE umbrella.

Or we can keep complaining about the situation we are in, keep looking out only for ourselves, and wondering why we are looked upon as the red headed stepchild of public safety, and ambulance drivers who only serve to bring people to the ER so the real healthcare system can treat them.
 
DrParasite said:
I think he's 100% right on this one.
Click to expand...
In @SpecialK 's country, their equivalent of EMT and AEMT do NOT share the title of Paramedic, nor are they even allowed to attend on an emergency ambulance.

That is why @NomadicMedic and I are frustrated with his confused support of doing this "everyone is a Paramedic" retitling in the US that they don't do in Australia.
 
Why does it matter what anyone calls us? Put CHIEF BUTTFACE on the back of my shirt. I know my skills and scope and my job.As long as we are all Chief Buttfaces and the media and the public can easily identify us as cops, firemen and buttfaces.

This argument always mixes two different topics. Public perception of the industry and education level WITHIN the industry.
 
DrParasite said:
You sure about that? The Australian paramedics professional association webpage seems to disagree with you (check out the other vocational titles for their BLS medic, as well as their operation)
Click to expand...

Yes I am sure, and I can authoritatively tell you "BLS Medic" is not a title used by any of the state ambulance services and neither is the Cert IV. The minimum requirement to be employed on an emergency ambulance in Australia is a Bachelors Degree for Paramedic and a PGDip for Intensive Care Paramedic. The current exception is the two-year Advanced Diploma run by ASNSW until they can recruit enough graduates to close off this pathway.

Canada calls their entry level a Primary Care Paramedic, and it's about the equivalent of our old Ambulance Officer level from many years ago. Either you want a unified, cohesive title, or you want to b!tch and piss arse around over insignificant semantics.
 
Coming from a person who works in a system that has experienced exactly what we are doing. We should listen to the advice and learn from their lessons.

SpecialK said:
The public barely understands the difference between say, EMT or Paramedic or Intensive Care Paramedic or whatever
Healthcare personnel barely understand the difference (unless they work very closely with ambulance personnel)
The differences are not significantly important

Everybody becomes a "Paramedic" and then there's a different scope or adjunct title or whatever, but at heart, everybody is a "Paramedic". Just like Nursing has three thousand different titles (or so it seems!) but each is a Registered Nurse underneath. If you are the beginning, you're a Primary Care Paramedic, if you're at the top you're an Intensive Care Paramedic ... if you work on the low acuity car you can be a Specialist Paramedic in Urgent Community Care, or whatever.

I've seen it with my own eyes, and I guarantee you the public or the hospital won't give two sh!ts about it. It'll be a good thing. So honestly, having been through this before, get over whatever anxiety is held about "but the public will be confused" because the public doesn't know the difference, nor do they care, nor does it ever come up, like ever, never, never ever seen or heard of it, ever. As a profession, you blokes have already decided what qualification is required for whatever levels you have and on and on, nobody else decided for you, and nobody else is going to decide to do this, it has to be something the profession owns.

Sure, it will require some forms to be updated, some new uniforms or rank slides, and your professional body or agency will also likely need to update itself, but that shouldn't be too hard.
Click to expand...



Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
SpecialK said:
Yes I am sure, and I can authoritatively tell you "BLS Medic" is not a title used by any of the state ambulance services and neither is the Cert IV. The minimum requirement to be employed on an emergency ambulance in Australia is a Bachelors Degree for Paramedic and a PGDip for Intensive Care Paramedic. The current exception is the two-year Advanced Diploma run by ASNSW until they can recruit enough graduates to close off this pathway.

Canada calls their entry level a Primary Care Paramedic, and it's about the equivalent of our old Ambulance Officer level from many years ago. Either you want a unified, cohesive title, or you want to b!tch and piss arse around over insignificant semantics.
Click to expand...
Again, you just don't understand than EMT is about the equivalent of a Cert III and AEMT is a bit less than your Cert IV... but unlike Australia, we will send an emergent ambulance with nothing but two EMTs and let them take the patient to the hospital.

As soon as you start calling you start calling your Cert III and Cert IV folks "Paramedics" and start letting them attend on emergency ambulances, then you can tell Americans to call their EMTs and AEMTs "Paramedics."

If you don't like that idea, then the only other way to avoid hypocrisy is to tell Americans to call ambulance providers Paramedics and also tell Americans to ban AEMTs and EMTs from attending emergency patients on ambulances... so that we can be more like Australia.
 
Last edited:
A Canadian Primary Care Paramedic has a wider scope and significantly higher education than a US AEMT (usually more education than a US Paramedic).

Canada has an EMT equivalent called an EMR, but they don't call them Paramedics and they don't let them on Ambulances.
 
You blokes can decide whatever qualification you want to go with a particular level, for example if you want EMT to be the American equivalent of a Diploma or whatever or you know, if you want to create a new level called Awesome Care Paramedic who needs a Masters degree. That is a distinctly seperate issue.

If you let somebody work on an emergency ambulance they should be called a Paramedic. Whether it's Primary Care Paramedic or something else, that person should be called a Paramedic. What level of qualification goes with each level if up to the particular professional body or whomever. That's not the same thing.

For example, i was quite surprised to learn intravenous cannulation and intravenous medicines were not performed by Primary Care Paramedics in Canada; I know it's at least a couple years at uni, I know it's not a degree but whatever it's called, you know, not brain surgery to put in an IV and give somebody some morphine if they are in pain, or midazolam if they are fitting, and it's just so common in this part of the world and has been for so long I just sort of assumed most places were doing it. Anyway, regardless, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be called a Primary Care Paramedic. A Registered Nurse might have a Masters degree, or they might have a Hospital Certificate from 30 years ago, but the profession still calls them the same thing because they are both equivalent in terms of their post. Same with the ambos, regardless of whether you have a degree or an old advanced diploma, doesn't change your title.

The bottom line is either you, as a profession, want a single title and do whatever with your regulating body or bodies to make that change or you do not. It's not the same thing as education. When Ambulance Victoria (then the Metropolitian Ambulance Service) decided to rename "Ambulance Officer" to "Paramedic" in 1999 they were still using the old two year Diploma which had been around since the mid 1970s. Not the same thing.
 
[Mod, please delete this post.]
 
Bullets said:
Why does it matter what anyone calls us? Put CHIEF BUTTFACE on the back of my shirt.
Click to expand...
IMG_0369.GIF
 
SpecialK said:
For example, i was quite surprised to learn intravenous cannulation and intravenous medicines were not performed by Primary Care Paramedics in Canada; I know it's at least a couple years at uni, I know it's not a degree but whatever it's called, you know, not brain surgery to put in an IV and give somebody some morphine if they are in pain, or midazolam if they are fitting, and it's just so common in this part of the world and has been for so long I just sort of assumed most places were doing it.
Click to expand...

I'm a Primary Care Paramedic in Canada and we actually do start IV's and give intravenous medications like naloxone, ketorolac, and antiemetics.

Summit said:
Canada has an EMT equivalent called an EMR, but they don't call them Paramedics and they don't let them on Ambulances.
Click to expand...

There are some smaller, rural ambulance services here that hire EMR's to work on the ambulance, but they would be partnered with a PCP and would pretty much only function as an ambulance driver and a glorified first aider. I also don't think they should be called a paramedic. It's an approximately 2 week course to become an EMR.

I do think it's OK that PCP's, ACP's, and CCP's are all called paramedics, this does make it less confusing for the public. We also have the education and responsibility to go along with that title.
 
A great podcast discussing EMS and education. Also, touches on common nomenclature around 15m mark.
 
Bullets said:
Why does it matter what anyone calls us? Put CHIEF BUTTFACE on the back of my shirt. I know my skills and scope and my job.As long as we are all Chief Buttfaces and the media and the public can easily identify us as cops, firemen and buttfaces.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure I can put a GoFundMe account for this, and get most of your coworkers to pay for you to wear the shirt at work...... heck, I might just need to put a flyer up in your station at work ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top