Common Nomenclature

[E tank]

That's fair enough, much as in a perfect world we'd be self-regulating. On the other hand, so much of advanced practice nursing is indistinguishable from medicine, right? So why do we call it nursing? I would assume that the reason is primarily turf protection, no?

So, for now, where EMS isn't necessarily self-regulating, we can always call it "medicine" and the practitioners "paramedics" - that doesn't seem disingenuous, no?

Respiratory Theramedicine anyone?

 

[SpecialK]

Why not just do like Australasia ... Paramedic for your base level and then Intensive Care Paramedic ontop. The volunteers can be Emergency Medical Technicians or Volunteer Ambulance Officers or whatever you want to call them or maybe do like Canada and call them Primary Care Paramedics. Simple yes?

 

[Medico]

Why not just do like Australasia ... Paramedic for your base level and then Intensive Care Paramedic ontop. The volunteers can be Emergency Medical Technicians or Volunteer Ambulance Officers or whatever you want to call them or maybe do like Canada and call them Primary Care Paramedics. Simple yes?

It is simple. I don't care what we decide. We need to unify things on a national level and advance the career. It's insane that it is acceptable for paramedics to be compensated with barely livable wages or that you must be a firefighter to earn a decent living.

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[Summit]

It is simple. I don't care what we decide. We need to unify things on a national level and advance the career.

Advancement is all about higher standards, not a counterproductive branding campaign.

It's insane that it is acceptable for paramedics to be compensated with barely livable wages or that you must be a firefighter to earn a decent living.

It is not insane. It is supply and demand.

 

[Medico]

Advancement is all about higher standards, not a counterproductive branding campaign.

We will have to agree to disagree. Branding is far from counterproductive. Rebranding has advanced professions and saved businesses. Some light marketing reading will help with that understanding. A rebranding intiative will assist with obtaining new educational standards as well.

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[NomadicMedic]

We will have to agree to disagree. Branding is far from counterproductive. Rebranding has advanced professions and saved businesses. Some light marketing reading will help with that understanding. A rebranding intiative will assist with obtaining new educational standards as well.

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It will? Explain.

I'll wait.

 

[Medico]

It will? Explain.

I'll wait.

If it were a successful campaign and the industry adopted Paramedicine as the nomenclature and Paramedics as the term to identify with, there will be an additional argument for education expansion, quite possibly utilizing Australian, Canadian or European models.

We have to keep in mind that we have to convince the general public, who do not understand what we do and to what capacity. Rebranding with a common name will make it easier to push an agenda for more funding and greater responsibility. We are a diluted profession that can be confusing to the layman and the healthcare industry as a whole. We often times butt heads with nursing, partly due to their lack of understanding of what it exactly is that we do.

To move forward as a public safety entity we need the support of the government and the public. And unfortunately we need to make that easier for us.

Perhaps fire departments can so easily overtake EMS departments because they are well branded, they are established, easy to understand, and supported.

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[ParkMedic]

Why the big concern with titles? Shouldn't education/skills be more of an issue?

 

[Medico]

Why the big concern with titles? Shouldn't education/skills be more of an issue?

It is less a concern with titles and a concern with unifying the profession. Education/skills are a major concern and it is not getting any less attention. We can focus on several issues to advance the profession.

I believe rebranding by nomenclature will be easier to tackle first when compared to overhauling education. And, a common nomenclature might make overhauling education less painful.

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[Summit]

If it were a successful campaign and the industry adopted Paramedicine as the nomenclature and Paramedics as the term to identify with, there will be an additional argument for education expansion, quite possibly utilizing Australian, Canadian or European models.

If A then B... except you totally failed to explain how B follows from A. How the hell is calling an EMT an Paramedic Basic going to accomplish anything good?

To move forward as a public safety entity we need the support of the government and the public. And unfortunately we need to make that easier for us.

Perhaps fire departments can so easily overtake EMS departments because they are well branded, they are established, easy to understand, and supported

I thought you wanted Paramedicine. If you want a public safety entity, then "EMS" is the term you want and being run by the FD is not even counter to the idea.

Do you understand the difference between healthcare and public safety? Do you understand which one you want? Do you understand where a healthcare oriented Paramedic separates as a deep specialization in prehospital emergency healthcare diverging from the minimalist technician type training such as EMT? That EMT is, in fact, really good training useful to a wide variety of public safety entities but Paramedic can never progress when it is a side role of public safety?

 

[Medico]

If A then B... except you totally failed to explain how B follows from A. How the hell is calling an EMT an Paramedic Basic going to accomplish anything good?

Where is Paramedic Basic in the proposal?

I thought you wanted Paramedicine. If you want a public safety entity, then "EMS" is the term you want and being run by the FD is not even counter to the idea.

Do you understand the difference between healthcare and public safety? Do you understand which one you want? Do you understand where a healthcare oriented Paramedic separates as a deep specialization in prehospital emergency healthcare diverging from the minimalist technician type training such as EMT? That EMT is, in fact, really good training useful to a wide variety of public safety entities but Paramedic can never progress when it is a side role of public safety?

Public Health is public safety. No, EMS is not the appropriate term. Even in pre-hospital medicine, we are responding to more than just emergencies. The public has evolved what we do and we have been slow to adapt and make the appropriate changes.

I want to encompass the entire profession. We are no longer just Technicians. Technicians perform a skill with little theoretical understanding of what it is they are doing. This was true decades ago. It is not a relevant term today. Our level of education and autonomy has elevated us past Technicians to that of professional clinicians. A more appropriate term will be Paramedicine.

I digress, we want the same thing and instead of being able to stand behind common goals and ideas people want to fight each other from within, thus accomplishing little.



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[Summit]

Where is Paramedic Basic in the proposal?

Don't be obtuse.

I want to encompass the entire profession. We are no longer just Technicians. Technicians perform a skill with little theoretical understanding of what it is they are doing. This was true decades ago. It is not a relevant term today. Our level of education and autonomy has elevated us past Technicians to that of professional clinicians.

We apparently live in different universes.

 

[Jim37F]

I suppose if you say "Hey we're transitioning from EMT/AEMT/Paramedic to the new Basic Care Paramedic/Intermediate Care Paramedic/Advanced Care Paramedic standard, but it's not just a new name on the same old system, you have 5 or 10 or however many years to get that full 1 year long schooling to be a Basic Care BLS provider now.....2 year degree for ILS, 3 year degree program for ALS......Now that everyone has the appropriate education we can work with the LEMSAs to adjust the scopes of practice accordingly, and deal with wage issues as well"

(Note this is just me spitballing off the top of my head the logic I see in rebranding, but yeah, there's about a bazillion ways that won't go according to that nice neat plan, say all those volunteers in rural areas who already say they can't spend a year to get Paramedic licensure, much less just to be BLS, to union issues, to places like SoCal insisting on continuing to be their own special snowflake to this or that............and while I support increasing the education to increase my scope, I'm still not sure where the increased wages will come from as we only get paid roughly 30 something percent, maybe 20 something last I heard of what we bill for? I don't think Medicare or Kaiser or Blue Cross would really care how much education we got to take someone with toe pain or constipation x1 week to the hospital doing not much more than taking vitals and talking to them....)

 

[VentMonkey]

Why the big concern with titles? Shouldn't EDUCATION be more of an issue?

I can dig it, but I will highlight what I like most about this post, and find most apparent.

Who cares about the titles? I hardly do. I define what I do by my actions, professionalism, con-ed, and education. Call me a basic for all I care.

 

[Medico]

Don't be obtuse.

Don't be insolent.

We apparently live in different universes.

I believe we do. The EMT's I work with are incredibly intelligent and have a broad technical understanding of what they're doing. Technician is not fitting.


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[SpecialK]

Hmm. If you blokes in the US are going to tie yourself up in knots over it, why just not call everybody a "Paramedic". The Nurses are all just "Registered Nurses" although they might work in different areas, e.g. an orthopaedic RN or aged care RN. You could just be a Paramedic (primary care) or Paramedic (critical care) or whatever ... you'd just have to change your rank slides or something just like how the Charge Nurses wear a different coloured top or whatever but as far as the profession is concerned they are still an RN.

If it's that important why not just have, as I said earlier, Primary Care, Advanced Care and Intensive Care? then you know, you can have Specialist Paramedics (title is very common in the UK) for example in Retrieval or whatever. Easy!

 

[DrParasite]

I'm supporting it, but only so I can change the sticker on my helmet from EMT to firefighter paramedic.... hey, maybe I can negotiate a pay raise out of my new title?

 

[EpiEMS]

Respiratory Theramedicine anyone?

This one deserves a good think, too. Perhaps I am missing the point on the nomenclature front?

The EMT's I work with are incredibly intelligent and have a broad technical understanding of what they're doing. Technician is not fitting.

Being a technician doesn't preclude you from being intelligent. And having a understanding is exactly what makes a technician. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the baseline level of training for EMTs is somewhere from 120-250 hours, we're talking a technical level of training (and less than many technical fields). Look, I'm all in favor of going to a uniform name - paramedic - for everybody, but let's not forget that this would encompass everybody from EMTs to critical care paramedics.

Hmm. If you blokes in the US are going to tie yourself up in knots over it, why just not call everybody a "Paramedic". The Nurses are all just "Registered Nurses" although they might work in different areas, e.g. an orthopaedic RN or aged care RN. You could just be a Paramedic (primary care) or Paramedic (critical care) or whatever ... you'd just have to change your rank slides or something just like how the Charge Nurses wear a different coloured top or whatever but as far as the profession is concerned they are still an RN.

If it's that important why not just have, as I said earlier, Primary Care, Advanced Care and Intensive Care? then you know, you can have Specialist Paramedics (title is very common in the UK) for example in Retrieval or whatever. Easy!

This is the easiest solution, assuming we can get buy-in!

 

[Summit]

Don't be insolent

If I wanted to be insolent, I'd tell you that if you had a broader perspective than EMS in your local area, you would likely not hold the positions that you do.

I believe we do. The EMT's I work with are incredibly intelligent and have a broad technical understanding of what they're doing.

I know several really intelligent EMTs. That has nothing to do with whether EMT=technician.

I know several EMTs with a broad understanding of healthcare... and the sure as heck didn't get it in their 120 hour EMT class.

EMT
Average nationally is about 140 hours including clinicals
EMT textbooks are written at the 7th grade level
Highschool diploma not required
Treatment is complaint based
The majority of time is spent directly or indirectly on psychomotor skills and operations, not theory
No time is spent on research an evaluating evidence
Only middle school level A&P
Psychomotor skills available to EMTs by far the most vast versus education time/depth compared to any other healthcare provider

If EMT is not technician level training, then what is?

 

[DrParasite]

EMT
Average nationally is about 140 hours including clinicals
EMT textbooks are written at the 7th grade level
Highschool diploma not required
Treatment is complaint based
The majority of time is spent directly or indirectly on psychomotor skills and operations, not theory
No time is spent on research an evaluating evidence
Only middle school level A&P
Psychomotor skills available to EMTs by far the most vast versus education time/depth compared to any other healthcare provider

If EMT is not technician level training, then what is?

Paramedic
1100 hours including clinicals (although it depends on the program, I found the 1100 number at St Johns University's program, although I have found between 1200 and 1800 listed elsewhere)
EMT textbooks are written at the 10th grade level
High School diploma is all that is required
Treatment is complaint based
Very little time is spent on research an evaluating evidence
Textbooks are still 3 to 5 years behind much of modern medicine
Only high school level A&P, if you even consider it that level. Programs are still offer a week long (meaning two or three classes in a week) , or entirely online A&P program, and use that for the A&P requirement.
Several paramedic are taught many psychomotor skills available in class, as well as drug techniques (RSI and intubation come to mind), but many medical directors don't let their crews do them, and there is a push to remove said skills from our scope of practice.

My EMT course currently runs 220 hours. so if EMT is technician level training, then what is paramedic?