Can EMT-B intubate or start IVs?

samsbgm said:
Where I'm at you always get two medics too. Can emt's attend on a call if someone has an iv? Half the time I'm just getting one enroute.
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For my area if it's a 911 call the paramedic has to attend regardless. If it's an IFT then EMTs are able to transport with an IV line and fluids.
 
MackTheKnife said:
You're right. It's the start. We did the adult/peds intubations on dummies and then had to do three actual in the field or ER to get fully signed off.
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Don't hedge on these answers.

Do you think that made you competent to intubate properly? Yes or no.

Do you agree with people who have that same amount of training being allowed to intubate? Yes or no.

Just checking.
 
Kaleb Griffin said:
I never thought that they could, but one of my friends that had taken his EMT class said that practiced intubation skills. I thought it was out of an EMT's scope of practice.
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When I worked in the GOM as an EMT-B/DMT (Diver Medical Technician) we were "taught" how to intubate and start IVs and were allowed to with medical direction. I cant tell you how thankful I am that I never was in a situation where it was needed. There is no way I would have been able to successfully intubate a pt and whats even worse is I probably would not have recognized a misplaced ET tube. Only after working on an ambulance (as a basic) and going through P school do I see how dangerous it was to give EMTs the ability to attempt to place advanced airways.
 
captaindepth said:
When I worked in the GOM as an EMT-B/DMT (Diver Medical Technician) we were "taught" how to intubate and start IVs and were allowed to with medical direction. I cant tell you how thankful I am that I never was in a situation where it was needed. There is no way I would have been able to successfully intubate a pt and whats even worse is I probably would not have recognized a misplaced ET tube. Only after working on an ambulance (as a basic) and going through P school do I see how dangerous it was to give EMTs the ability to attempt to place advanced airways.
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I absolutely understand why you would think that way. It would pretty much be the same as an RN (even though they can't normally intubate) delegating an intubation to myself (ER tech).
 
samsbgm said:
Where I'm at you always get two medics too. Can emt's attend on a call if someone has an iv? Half the time I'm just getting one enroute.
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Where I'm at its one Medic, my EMT partner, and whoever off the fire truck (EMTs) however nearly all EMTs have an IV cert. but sometimes they don't. So they can't maintain or start an IV.
 
Kaleb Griffin said:
I absolutely understand why you would think that way. It would pretty much be the same as an RN (even though they can't normally intubate) delegating an intubation to myself (ER tech).
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Yeah, it was not a good idea to say the least. There were 2 EMTs/DMTs per job (one per shift), if the **** hit the fan, it would have been the blind leading the blind.

I am all for EMTs having IV certs when they work with a paramedic partner. Its great experience and is great for when you have critical/multiple pts.
 
Up here it's very much the same as you guys have mentioned. Licensed to do Iv starts, supra glottic airways and they get an "orientation" for a class to intubation.....just so they're comfortable around the skill when the medic does it.
 
jcroteau said:
Up here it's very much the same as you guys have mentioned. Licensed to do Iv starts, supra glottic airways and they get an "orientation" for a class to intubation.....just so they're comfortable around the skill when the medic does it.
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Keeping in mind that BLS in Canada is called Primary Care Paramedic (with some regional variations) and is a 8-12 month fulltime program closer to AEMT than EMT-B.
 
Kaleb Griffin said:
I never thought that they could, but one of my friends that had taken his EMT class said that practiced intubation skills. I thought it was out of an EMT's scope of practice.
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In Wisconsin we can do blind intubation at the basic level. King and combi.
 
emtB123 said:
In Wisconsin we can do blind intubation at the basic level. King and combi.
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Just as a point of order, a BIAD is not commonly referred to as intubation, even though you are, in reality, placing a tube.

The act of placing an endotracheal tube is what we are referencing when we speak of intubation. In most cases this is not, and should not ever be a basic skill.
 
DEmedic said:
Just as a point of order, a BIAD is not commonly referred to as intubation, even though you are, in reality, placing a tube.

The act of placing an endotracheal tube is what we are referencing when we speak of intubation. In most cases this is not, and should not ever be a basic skill.
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Intubation should be a Basic skill. It's an airway, not a drug, or something complicated.
 
DEmedic said:
Just as a point of order, a BIAD is not commonly referred to as intubation, even though you are, in reality, placing a tube.

The act of placing an endotracheal tube is what we are referencing when we speak of intubation. In most cases this is not, and should not ever be a basic skill.
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I suppose that's why we always said placing an advanced airway in class. My bad.
 
We can do Supraglottics as an EMT here, but no IVs. I dont think we can even assist in one?
 
My reasoning is this: I've done a lot of intubations. On peds in status epilepticus, on codes, etc. Are there difficult intubations? Absolutely, but it's a mechanical skill. If you have good eye hand coordination, and know basic A&P, you can tube. ETs are the proverbial gold standard of airways. That being said, teaching intubation and acquiring the skill is not that hard. I'm not advocating that Basics do RSIs, by the way.
 
MackTheKnife said:
My reasoning is this: I've done a lot of intubations. On peds in status epilepticus, on codes, etc. Are there difficult intubations? Absolutely, but it's a mechanical skill. If you have good eye hand coordination, and know basic A&P, you can tube. ETs are the proverbial gold standard of airways. That being said, teaching intubation and acquiring the skill is not that hard. I'm not advocating that Basics do RSIs, by the way.
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If you haven't had a failed intubation attempt, you haven't done enough intubations.
Minimizing intubation as "no big deal" is a dangerous road to head down.
 
DEmedic said:
Right. Nothing complicated at all.

smh.
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That kind of thinking is why there are docs that are very willing and actively trying to pull ETI from prehospital providers in general
 
DEmedic said:
Sorry. I should have used the sarcasm font.
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Sorry i misquoted. I know you better than to think you meant that lol. I meant yhe one you quoted.
 
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