Can an EMT B become an ER tech?

[FF894]

So, the EMTP program and state or national certifcation is currently the standard by which prehospital EMS operates, agree?

What do you propose the new standard to be (specifically) and what courses/certs/licensure do you recommend an EMTP who works in the field seek?

 

[daedalus]

So, the EMTP program and state or national certifcation is currently the standard by which prehospital EMS operates, agree?

What do you propose the new standard to be (specifically) and what courses/certs/licensure do you recommend an EMTP who works in the field seek?

A few of us believe that the "standard" for Paramedics should be a four year degree.

Yes, to answer the question, many fire departments would than have to re-evaluate their role in EMS.

 

[FF894]

I only know of a few BS in paramedicine and they are all on the west coast. What other options do you propose a paramedic seek to be "professional"

 

[VentMedic]

I was thinking that EMS wasnt truely EMS for a while there, more scoop and screw.

EMS got off to a great start. If you notice that many of us with 30+ years in EMS have Associates degrees in EMS from the 1970s. At that time nursing was making a push for professionalism by going with the degree and eliminating diploma programs. EMS was taking note and had every chance at that time to become a well established profession. However, by the late 1980s, the FDs and private ambulances pushed for their own home-grown medic mills for a quick fix instead of sticking to a sound educational plan. Many community colleges had already established degree programs but quickly had to estalish "academy style" rapid training certficiates to be competitive.

So in reality, back in the 1970s, Paramedics in some parts of the country were better educated as well as having more skills. We just dropped the ball by not continuing to follow through with setting the standards higher as nursing and all of the other healthcare professions have done.

There is probably more "scoop and run" mentality today with those who argue for the BLS systems to remain or with the insistance of keeping everything divided into BLS and ALS.

A little history lesson:

http://www.freedomhousedoc.com/5.html

http://www.emsresponder.com/article/article.jsp?id=4901&siteSection=1

The first training program began in October 1967 with 44 "ambulance attendant" trainees. The program included about 300 hours of classroom and clinical work, followed by nine months of physician-supervised, on-the-job training. The trainees learned CPR, basic nursing, rescue techniques and defensive driving. They assisted in autopsies to study anatomy. They learned to deliver babies.

The vehicles were designed to Safar's specifications and outfitted with electrocardiogram monitors, intravenous drips, intubation kits, blood pressure cuffs and defibrillators.

Interesting photos of Miami's history in EMS.

http://www.fl-ems.com/BEMS/historyhome.html

http://www.nemsmf.org/


1967

In 1967 ,Dr. Nagel in Miami , Florida (USA) , established the
first Paramedics Unit that provided ALS (Advanced Life Support) ,
and he is considered to be "The father of thePARAMEDICS"

http://www.nemsmf.org/

1967: That makes EMS almost 42 y/o.

 

[BossyCow]

A few of us believe that the "standard" for Paramedics should be a four year degree.

Yes, to answer the question, many fire departments would than have to re-evaluate their role in EMS.

Not necessarily. Many fire departments are now requiring 4 year degrees.

 

[VentMedic]

Not necessarily. Many fire departments are now requiring 4 year degrees.

Requiring a 4-year degree in Paramedicine?

Often the 4 year degree is suggested to make rank. But, that can also be in any degree including the online questionable sources which got quite a few FFs in trouble who had been promoted based on these degrees. The Paramedic license may also be required but rarely do the FDs require anything other than a cert.

Making the Paramedic a Bachelors degree might be a little unrealistic at this time. However, the Associates degree should be within reach. Oregon was successful in making it a requirement for licensure. That would definitely change things in states like Florida where the FDs require every FF to be a Paramedic at hire (or to even pick up the application) or within 1 year of hire. Too many FDs are accustomed to having a medic mill around the corner to meet these rapid requirements.

 

[silver]

Not necessarily. Many fire departments are now requiring 4 year degrees.

in what specific subject? or do they just need any BA/BS

There is like one college in 100 miles around that has a BS in EMS management/paramedicine

by requiring it, it seems like they are trying to give that specific college some extra business

I agree an associates seems more reasonable.

 

[Xueyon]

Hmm I never seen any FD requiring you have a degree at all. As long as you have ur EMT cert. And ur required fire tech courses ur good to go. And for degrees in EMS I don't think it'll ever make a defference. As or Bs degrees will still only be degrees not meaning ur a better medic then others.

 

[daedalus]

I should expand upon my post. Four year degrees for critical care paramedics.

A.S. in paramedicine for licensure.

Merry Christmas

 

[JPINFV]

As or Bs degrees will still only be degrees not meaning ur a better medic then others.

Assuming it was possible, would you consider going to a physician who didn't have a medical degree (but had a medical license)? How about a lawyer without a law degree but who had passed the bar exam?

 

[Xueyon]

Assuming it was possible, would you consider going to a physician who didn't have a medical degree (but had a medical license)? How about a lawyer without a law degree but who had passed the bar exam?

1st off are any of us here talking bout doctors or lawyers??? 2nd is it possible to become a lawyer or doctor without a degree??? NO! how bout Paramedics? Yes!!!! And for who I would go to' well if he is lisence to save my life I don't think it would matter now would it. Or would you wait while ur dyin and ask hey do you have a degree to save my life? No I doubt you'd ask. This post has got way off topic... So yeah.

 

[FF894]

So, the EMTP program and state or national certifcation is currently the standard by which prehospital EMS operates, agree?

What do you propose the new standard to be (specifically) and what courses/certs/licensure do you recommend an EMTP who works in the field seek?

Okay, I appologize for getting the age of EMS wrong. I was way off. I still don't know that this was answered though. What do you propose an EMTP have for an education right now, in this era of EMS, to be a "professional?"

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

 

[JPINFV]

1st off are any of us here talking bout doctors or lawyers??? 2nd is it possible to become a lawyer or doctor without a degree??? NO! how bout Paramedics? Yes!!!! And for who I would go to' well if he is lisence to save my life I don't think it would matter now would it. Or would you wait while ur dyin and ask hey do you have a degree to save my life? No I doubt you'd ask. This post has got way off topic... So yeah.

So basically you believe that education doesn't matter then.

 

[daedalus]

1st off are any of us here talking bout doctors or lawyers??? 2nd is it possible to become a lawyer or doctor without a degree??? NO! how bout Paramedics? Yes!!!! And for who I would go to' well if he is lisence to save my life I don't think it would matter now would it. Or would you wait while ur dyin and ask hey do you have a degree to save my life? No I doubt you'd ask. This post has got way off topic... So yeah.

First, you have quite a bit of spelling errors. Maybe you think education should not matter because you seem to be lacking one.
Second, paramedics rarely save lives.
Third, I for one am trying to improve the professional standing of paramedics, and I find it insulting to all the the time I have spent studying for you to create a post like this for members of the public to read online.

And yes, a degree does matter. Do you want the paramedic starting fluid therapy on you to understand the chemistry of the colloid he is administering into your blood stream, the the physiology of fluid shifting between spaces in the body? Or are you like the many who think water is water and just infuse it in there so the blood pressure goes up?

I for one would rather have the paramedic working on me that had college level chemistry classes under their belt. Thats just me, though.

 

[Xueyon]

So basically you believe that education doesn't matter then.

I think you need to reread my post... Did I say education doesn't matter? No! I didn't, were talking about degrees. Its Not that I don't think education matters cuz it does. But when it comes to Paramedics I think if someone gets lisences then it's just and good as someone with an AS or BS getting it. The only difference would be that the one with the degree has more science knowledge. It wouldn't mean there a better medic cuz of a degree. So I don't know where you got the idea of me saying education doesn't matter cuz it does.

 

[daedalus]

Wow.

So science knowledge does not matter in the practice of Paramedicine?
What should I expect though, this guy is probably in EMT school.

 

[FF894]

The only difference would be that the one with the degree has more science knowledge. It wouldn't mean there a better medic cuz of a degree. So I don't know where you got the idea of me saying education doesn't matter cuz it does.

Put the Eggnog down, step away from the computer and no-one gets hurt.

 

[Xueyon]

First, you have quite a bit of spelling errors. Maybe you think education should not matter because you seem to be lacking one.
Second, paramedics rarely save lives.
Third, I for one am trying to improve the professional standing of paramedics, and I find it insulting to all the the time I have spent studying for you to create a post like this for members of the public to read online.

And yes, a degree does matter. Do you want the paramedic starting fluid therapy on you to understand the chemistry of the colloid he is administering into your blood stream, the the physiology of fluid shifting between spaces in the body? Or are you like the many who think water is water and just infuse it in there so the blood pressure goes up?

I for one would rather have the paramedic working on me that had college level chemistry classes under their belt. Thats just me, though.

My grammer has lots or errors umm ok. I'm making quick posts on my iphone I'm not trying to win a writting contest here. And for education wise I have my AS and would finish school this year. I just decided to get my EMT cert. I'm not trying to insult anyone. If so i dont mean to. But for improving the EMS service by furthering education to get there degrees I think lots of medics we have now would have trouble in that part.

 

[Xueyon]

Wow.

So science knowledge does not matter in the practice of Paramedicine?
What should I expect though, this guy is probably in EMT school.

Yes actually I'm in a Emt course rite now and will be finishing this year with my BS in Bio.

 

[daedalus]

Ill tell you what, I am going to take your word on the bio degree. I'm also going to challenge you to get through EMT school and than Paramedic school and ask yourself honestly, in my practice as a paramedic do I do better because of my lower and upper division knowledge of chemistry and biology?

I'm willing to put money on it that you will be far ahead of the game with a BS in biology.