Away with the national registry

[futureemt]

you claim that you agree with the previous poster yet you're haven't taken the NREMT yet. What are you basing your dislike on? What other people have told you?

Contrary to the previous poster, the NREMT does not test the student's test taking ability, it is a critical thinking test, you can't just memorise a bunch of facts and go in and pass it. Given that you're entering the medical field, which if nothing else, DEMANDS critical thinking, you might think about working on passing it rather than on making what sound like unfounded complaints about it.

I've found that the majority of people who dislike it have either failed it or they've been told how bad it is by others who have failed it.

No one I've spoken with who's passed it seems to have any major problems with it, with the exception of a couple of people who post here.

John E.

I was told by many emt around here that it a pain to keep it up.

 

[futureemt]

John makes some valid points.

If you have never taken the NREMT how do you know? Also if you have never taken any other medical tests or National Boards in what comparison do you have?

As well you stated you are a Basic Student, therefore you have definitely not taken any other NREMT tests as of yet.

Finally, N.J. ... enough said. With the documented controversies within the state that still runs First-Aid units and fragmented ALS units. Ever consider really why they do not use NREMT? ... I suggest to check out the ease or shall I say the complexity of repricosity.

R/r 911

I wasn't trying to start a problem....I do apologize I was out of line. I check it out....thanks!

 

[Katie]

I'm not trying to start a fight here, but I don't think that she was out of line in expressing her opinion. Founded or unfounded in other people's opinion, she has a right to express hers. Has she taken the test? No she hasn't, and maybe the post could have been worded better. But the post that she quoted deals more with the theory of testing. Like it or not, people will share opinions and there's no rule that says you can't say what you think. This is a place to come and share ideas and all she was doing was agreeing with what someone else said which happened to be a differing opinion, not an error. Sorry if I'm offending some people but I just think it's a bit harsh to jump on someone for entering into a discussion.

 

[John E]

Well I wasn't ....

trying to start a fight either, I was simply curious as to how someone who hasn't taken a particular test can give an opinion about it.

As for my disagreement with the notion that the NREMT is just a test to test people's test taking ability, well that may be someone's opinion but it is simply not factual.

I can have and hold an opinion about most anything, that doesn't mean that I can use my own facts.

The NREMT isn't used to test student's test taking ability, it's used to test their critical thinking ability and to determine if they've retained a minimal amount of specific knowledge on particular subjects. That's not my opinion, that's just what the test is. That's why it's used by so many states and counties to qualify potential EMT's and Paramedics. I've attended a fair share of classes, even helped to teach a few at the college level and I have never heard of nor seen a test that was used simply to test the student's ability to take tests. On the other hand, I've seen, read and heard many a student who failed a test use that as an excuse for failing. When pressed as to what they actually mean, I've never been given a single example that held up.

I would challenge anyone who thinks that the NREMT is an example of what the previous posted called it to give some specific examples of what they mean by calling it a "test to test a student's ability to take tests...". Frankly, I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.

I'd go along with what "piranha" wrote, if the NREMT is too tough for someone, they shouldn't be treating patients. Or to put it into a familiar context, would you want someone who lacked the knowledge required to pass the NREMT to treat a member of your family?

John E.

 

[VentMedic]

I have heard rumors and actually seen some states do this only to return in a few years. Thus the reason so many states are NREMT. The main reason again, it is very, very costly to maintain a professional test. As well, most states realize getting other states to recognize their tests will be difficult, so limiting the profession.

I do not think most understand the process of developing a recognized accredited test. It is a lengthy process of professional, educated test writers that have to validate tests questions in comparison to the professional standards, etc... again, it is not an easy, cheap process.

I do realize TN has been very pro-active in some of their educational standards, but again one will have to see if they will want to fund such an endeavor.

R/r 911

Florida finally went to the NREMT a few years ago for EMT-B testing. That was due to the unbelievable amount of EMT students testing in this state. The expense of testing them with the state exam got very expensive.

The paramedic test is still Florida's. It has a minimum passing score of 80% as opposed to 70% on the NR. Florida does accept the NR for retroprocity but reserves the right to retest someone if they graduated from a less than ideal school in another state. That part I do find ironic since Florida is the capitol of medic mills. Florida just negotiated for another testing vendor (Psychological Services, Inc.) to offer the state exam beginning Jan 08. This has created much confusion in the application process again.

 

[Katie]

On the other hand, I've seen, read and heard many a student who failed a test use that as an excuse for failing. When pressed as to what they actually mean, I've never been given a single example that held up.

I'd go along with what "piranha" wrote, if the NREMT is too tough for someone, they shouldn't be treating patients.
John E.

I'll certainly agree with that

 

[bstone]

Good or bad, NREMT is the best thing we got for a national certification. I suggest that the NAEMT and folks like us push our state boards to accept the NREMT. The folks in the offices don't often get on the ambulance so it's a little tough for them to know what's it's really like. Moreover, their paychecks are a lot larger then ours.

At the same time, the NREMT exam needs to be thrown out and written anew. It needs to test clinical decision making and knowledge, not the "critical thinking" junk. The questions needs to be straight forward and much less confusing. I never had a problem with the NREMT written exams, but I acutely feel the pain of those who did.

 

[futureemt]

trying to start a fight either, I was simply curious as to how someone who hasn't taken a particular test can give an opinion about it.

As for my disagreement with the notion that the NREMT is just a test to test people's test taking ability, well that may be someone's opinion but it is simply not factual.

I can have and hold an opinion about most anything, that doesn't mean that I can use my own facts.

The NREMT isn't used to test student's test taking ability, it's used to test their critical thinking ability and to determine if they've retained a minimal amount of specific knowledge on particular subjects. That's not my opinion, that's just what the test is. That's why it's used by so many states and counties to qualify potential EMT's and Paramedics. I've attended a fair share of classes, even helped to teach a few at the college level and I have never heard of nor seen a test that was used simply to test the student's ability to take tests. On the other hand, I've seen, read and heard many a student who failed a test use that as an excuse for failing. When pressed as to what they actually mean, I've never been given a single example that held up.

I would challenge anyone who thinks that the NREMT is an example of what the previous posted called it to give some specific examples of what they mean by calling it a "test to test a student's ability to take tests...". Frankly, I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.

I'd go along with what "piranha" wrote, if the NREMT is too tough for someone, they shouldn't be treating patients. Or to put it into a familiar context, would you want someone who lacked the knowledge required to pass the NREMT to treat a member of your family?

John E.

John

I do agree with you, but I am not "only" an emt b student...I'm human and make mistakes and maybe I was out of line. I choose to go into the field for a reason. I guess what I was trying to say is what I have been told...I am looking into something and why jersey isn't doing it anymore. I would have no problem taking the test and believe it is worth it. I may have not taken a practical for EMT, but I did have to sit to get my dental xray license. Maybe its not the same, but its not as easy as you may think.

 

[Ridryder911]

I'm not trying to start a fight here, but I don't think that she was out of line in expressing her opinion. Founded or unfounded in other people's opinion, she has a right to express hers. Has she taken the test? No she hasn't, and maybe the post could have been worded better. But the post that she quoted deals more with the theory of testing. Like it or not, people will share opinions and there's no rule that says you can't say what you think. This is a place to come and share ideas and all she was doing was agreeing with what someone else said which happened to be a differing opinion, not an error. Sorry if I'm offending some people but I just think it's a bit harsh to jump on someone for entering into a discussion.

You are right, people can voice any opinion, but should be able to defend their reasoning. The problem is on how that opinion is based and obtained. Should I condone people who's opinion is being of racist, ignorance, or judgemental without any found evidence? If you are going to state opinions then I would definitely would attempt to have the insight, knowledge, and if possibly experience about it; otherwise it would be just spouting off hot air.

This is one of EMS problems, many love to give opinions, false innuendos and present them as factual things, only to find out later it was all myth, lies or just simply made up. Credibility is part of being a professional. Just like our treatment should be, everything we do and say should be justifiable. If you want to just to voice your opinion, that is what a blog is for.. placing thoughts into a diary.

The reason I get defensive about the NREMT and many other statements is most have nothing to compare it to. This is their first real "medical certification" test that they have ever taken. Is it confusing, controversial and ill written in many parts? You bet! The way all board examinations are and should be. I take over ten medical certification test and renew at least about three a year, I can assure you they are all written in the same manner or format, some better and some are not. Remember, they are there to test for minimal safety level.

I may seem harsh at times, and personally I don't care. I am not here to give kudos, or paint the real world of medicine as a rainbow. I am here to discuss trends of EMS, new patient care, and if possible teach a little on the way. I obviously enjoy and love the EMS profession, and have worked over three fourths of my life in it. Many new EMT's and those in school will find medicine is harsh. It has to be. We expect only the best to survive and those that will succeed will be able to defend themselves, their actions, and their line of thinking throughout their career. If you can not make it on a simple forum by defending yourself, doubtfully you will make it in the real EMS world. It is a tough world out there. Many have found these forums actually prepare them to before they enter the work field, and awaken them to "think outside the box".

R/r 911

 

[futureemt]

You are right, people can voice any opinion, but should be able to defend their reasoning. The problem is on how that opinion is based and obtained. Should I condone people who's opinion is being of racist, ignorance, or judgemental without any found evidence? If you are going to state opinions then I would definitely would attempt to have the insight, knowledge, and if possibly experience about it; otherwise it would be just spouting off hot air.

This is one of EMS problems, many love to give opinions, false innuendos and present them as factual things, only to find out later it was all myth, lies or just simply made up. Credibility is part of being a professional. Just like our treatment should be, everything we do and say should be justifiable. If you want to just to voice your opinion, that is what a blog is for.. placing thoughts into a diary.

The reason I get defensive about the NREMT and many other statements is most have nothing to compare it to. This is their first real "medical certification" test that they have ever taken. Is it confusing, controversial and ill written in many parts? You bet! The way all board examinations are and should be. I take over ten medical certification test and renew at least about three a year, I can assure you they are all written in the same manner or format, some better and some are not. Remember, they are there to test for minimal safety level.

I may seem harsh at times, and personally I don't care. I am not here to give kudos, or paint the real world of medicine as a rainbow. I am here to discuss trends of EMS, new patient care, and if possible teach a little on the way. I obviously enjoy and love the EMS profession, and have worked over three fourths of my life in it. Many new EMT's and those in school will find medicine is harsh. It has to be. We expect only the best to survive and those that will succeed will be able to defend themselves, their actions, and their line of thinking throughout their career. If you can not make it on a simple forum by defending yourself, doubtfully you will make it in the real EMS world. It is a tough world out there. Many have found these forums actually prepare them to before they enter the work field, and awaken them to "think outside the box".

R/r 911

You guys have gaven me a lot of confidence and I have learned a lot so far just by reading other posts. I appreciate that!! I do know its not easy....but I will to take it all the way because I'm determined to do so!!!

Donna

 

[Ridryder911]

I will to take it all the way because I'm determined to do so!!!

Donna

Good! That is a great start!

R/r 911

 

[disassociative]

Ok, back to topic;

As far as TN and the National Registry, our state(which uses the NREMT-B for the EMT-IV state licensure) requires an additional practical examination to verify IV administation skills, advanced assessments, and certain other skills required of the EMT-IV that are not within the general scope of EMT-B care. This test is tended to by Joe Lynn, EMS Consultant(State of TN); I have tested under him personally. You are given stations and skills.

Without passing this practical + your class final--the state will not allow you to proceed to the NR(Your EMS program director must login to the secret NREMT site and verify that you did in fact do both of these) before you can get your ATT(Authorization to Test) and schedule your test with the Pearson Vue.

You are also required by the state of Tn to have your 5 sticks on file as well as TBI/FBI Background Check.
You must also pay your license fee with the state; They do 2 sweeps a month of the NREMT site(checking for who passed, who did not). Once, the state sees that you have passed, they will pass your license application on to Donna Tidwell; if your background check is clear, your license is authorized your license entry: Applicant in Process changes to EMT-IV and your license # is assigned. You cannot work in the state of TN until you have THIS license number.

 

[bstone]

Tedious! I tried to get a TN license this summer for Bonaroo as I wanted to volunteer. After a while I just gave up on it. I had all the skills but the paperwork was insane and the FBI backround check, cost and length of time was a bit much.

 

[disassociative]

Yeah, bud- I agree. (P.S. I worked Bonaroo last yr; nothing like 19 yo's running up to you screaming, "I've Never tried acid before! Help.).

TN looks at the situation in the sense that, as EMS providers we are trusted to enter people's homes. When we arrive at the homes, they do not ask us, "Have you been convicted of a felony?, before you enter the back room with the jewelry on the table, nor do they ask if you are a sex offender when you enter the same room in which their 15 yo daughter sleeps. They simply know that you are EMS and that you are there to help, they put this trust in us. TN has simply taken the measures to ensure that personnel can appropriately perform their duties without such actions. Does this mean that TN EMS is exempt from "Bad Apples"? Absolutely Not. No one can ensure that. There will always be that one Paramedic or EMT that has no history, yet suddenly the morphine comes up missing on his/her count. However, the aforementioned measures do cull the herd significantly in my opinion.

You shouldn't have much of a prob, since you are an EMT-I. The TBI/FBI background check costs $56; they will put all 10 of your fingerprints in the system, and file your results with the state with regard to criminal and misdemeanor charges.(I hated having to pay it as well!) Once the state does the bi-monthly check of the NR, they will issue your EMT-IV license.

If you were NREMT-B from a Non-TN program, it could be a problem; as you would have to take the EMT-B to EMT-IV transition course in IV therapy, etc.

Our emt-IV's hold NREMT-B with successful completion of EMT-IV training course in the state of TN. I'm sure, yourself being an EMT-I would not have a problem.

Unfortunately, TN does not recognize EMT-B or EMT-I; so you are either an EMT-IV or a Paramedic.

Get your license and I'll secure you a spot on Bonaroo(My old EMT-IV instructor works with Tullahoma EMS as a Shift Supervisor/Paramedic, and they are the ones that work the event.)

Metallica should be there this year; and rumor has it that the remaining members of Zeppelin will reunite. Woohoo!

Good Luck!

 

[JPINFV]

At least you only had to pay for your background check once. California (well, MOST and soon to be all due to recent scandles regarding people going to other counties to get certified that didn't require a background check) requires you to have a Live Scan (California DOJ and FBI) background check. To add to the fun times, California DMV also requires a Live Scan for the Ambulance Driver Certificate. It's fun because, due to "privacy" laws, county EMS can't/won't share your background check with the DMV (and vice versa). You MIGHT be able to save the rolling fee ($15-20, varies by location) by requesting both at the same time, but it's still going to be around $100 total. This is in addition to the NREMT test fee and county certification fee ($60 in Orange County including the Ambulance Attendent license).

 

[futureemt]

okay so here's the answer I got:

You can still sit for the NREMT test once you graduate the class. The only change is that when you complete the class the test they offer will be the State test, but you can always sit for the NREMT test as well if you would like.


Donna ( New Jersey)

 

[John E]

I'll raise you 1 Livescan...

and a couple of administrative fees...

In order to work for a private ambulance company that operates in, as in picks up patients within the boundaries of, the city of Los Angeles, CA an EMT must pay/do/provide the following.

NREMT EMT-B test, obviously you have to pass this.

Practical skills tested on a pass/fail basis, done thru your certified by the county training program/school.

Livescan fingerprinting sent to the state Dept. of Justice, average cost, $50.00.

Current TB test, free at your local community college but only if you're a student there.

AHA/CPR for health care providers card, don't even think about laminating it, cost $5.00

Proof of graduation from aforementioned training program/school.

Los Angeles County EMT-1 certification, cost $30.00 plus Livescan mentioned above.

CA DMV Ambulance Drivers License, cost $25.00 plus yet another Livescan fingerprinting, also requires passing a written exam and generally wasting a fair amount of time in one of our lovely DMV offices.

Certified DOT physical exam, cost $60.00

A Los Angeles city Ambulance "permit", cost $142.00 which to their credit includes the cost of yet another Livescan,that makes a total of 3 for those keeping track, also required, a statement of employment from your company which surprise, has to be signed and filled out BEFORE you can apply, proof of all of the stuff you had to provide to the county must be in hand when you go to the office cause just bringing your LA county cert. is too damned easy. And ironically enough, the Dept. of Transportation, which in LA means the people who issue parking citations, does not have it's own parking structure. And whatever you do, don't photocopy the application unless you do it onto a 2 sided piece of paper, dividing it onto 2 separate sheets is strictly forbidden, too much paper to deal with apparently. And don't even try to contact the office by phone to find out what you need to bring cause it aint gonna happen. And best of luck with the spiffy website.

Along with the Livescan you have to sign an affidavit that states that you understand that not admitting to ANY criminal conviction of any kind at any time in your life, including juvenile convictions, expunged convictions, or those set aside for any reason, is grounds to deny you the permit.

All that to get a job that starts at around $8.00 per hour. But not to worry, you can make it up in overtime...;^)

John E.

 

[JPINFV]

Damn, you're getting screwed, big time. Move down to OC. Same DMV BS and same DOT Card BS, but the cert is ~$60 (~$30 each for your EMT-B cert and attendant license) and you only need 1 livescan. Plus you can get it as a 2 year cert as well as before you're employed. Most of the companies down here also start at/above $10/hr (Care, Pacific, Lynch, at least. Doctor's has terrible pay though).

edit: Hell, CC students get free TB tests? Even UCI Student Health charged like $10 for that. (TB tests aren't required in OC though)

 

[KillTank]

I find this rather funny, I was not questioning the test, It was a simple rumor and I thought maybe i would bring it to the forums for discussion.

 

[John E]

Forgot to mention...

cost of tuition at community college $100.00, 5 credit hours @$20.00 per hr.

Books for above, about $100.00 depending on whether you can find em used.

Uniform and other stuff for above, another $100.00 or so depending on where you buy it all.

No TB tests required in Orange County, yikes...what about Hepatitis?

As far as the NREMT goes, rumours that it is going away seem to be wishful thinking on the part of folks who didn't or can't pass it. If only national testing/registration led to higher salaries as it tends to do in other health care fields.

John E.