Austin Travis County EMS hiring Paramedics and paying them as Basics

[TransportJockey]

First off, everyone knows you do not get into EMS, Fire, or Police to become rich. However, an EMS career for the city of Austin not only can provide you a comfortable lifestyle, but ample opportunity for advancement. As far as "built in overtime", I would rather work the two 24's a week, or two 12's and a 24 a week to total 48 hrs, thus AUTOMATICALLY giving you 8 hrs a week in OT or 16 hrs a pay period, all for working just 2 or 3 days a week. This leaves you 4 to five other days during the week to enjoy life, go to school, or pick up extra shifts to buy a few toys. It's a well known fact that the big salaries we read about of ANY public safety provider was made in OT and not their base pay. And as far as when a department tells you there is ample OT doesn't necessarily mean that they are dysfunctional. Many of your larger departments (IE FDNY, LA City, LA County, DC Fire/EMS, Frisco just to name a few) including Austin will have the OT available due to vacation and sick time being utilized. And when you have a department with 400-1000 employees there are bound to be quite a few holes everyday, not to mention any vacancies that may already exist. I apologize if I came off aggressive or offensice, but I do not feel it's productive or helpful to bash, speculate, complain, or or spread misinformation about a department for which someone has no real 1st hand knowledge about. A healthier way to open the forum regarding the hiring practices and/or pay regarding a specific department would be to simply ask for clarification, or just ask the questions pertaining to those topics. Too often I read statements of "my friend works there and he told me this" or "I hear they're doing this." Statements such as these lead to false information getting out and misinterpretations of the facts.

Just saying, using DC FEMS as an example of a system that has ample OT but is NOT dysfunctional makes me wonder if you know what you are talkign about. DC FEMS is one of the worst run agencies in the country right now, as evidenced by their shortage of medics and now the idea of taking all medic ambulances off the roads between certain hours of the morning. They can't even cover their own calls.

 

[46Young]

I have to ask, are you a union steward? You are awefully fast and good at figuring this stuff out.

I was in Baruch College in NYC for accounting back in the 90's before I dropped out due to lack of interest. Still good with figures. I've done much studying on personal finance and investing. I've worked here with a few financial and retirement gurus that have shown me how to maximize the financial benefits of working here, and that has allowed me to effectively analyze my former places of employment, as well as figure out what a department is really offering based on quoted salary, schedule, retirment years ofservice and multiplier, etc. Charleston Third Service EMS was a negative learning experience for me in several regards in the financial sense.

 

[Veneficus]

I was in Baruch College in NYC for accounting back in the 90's before I dropped out due to lack of interest. Still good with figures. I've done much studying on personal finance and investing. I've worked here with a few financial and retirement gurus that have shown me how to maximize the financial benefits of working here, and that has allowed me to effectively analyze my former places of employment, as well as figure out what a department is really offering based on quoted salary, schedule, retirment years ofservice and multiplier, etc. Charleston Third Service EMS was a negative learning experience for me in several regards in the financial sense.

Next time I get an offer can I send it to you to analyze?

 

[46Young]

Just saying, using DC FEMS as an example of a system that has ample OT but is NOT dysfunctional makes me wonder if you know what you are talkign about. DC FEMS is one of the worst run agencies in the country right now, as evidenced by their shortage of medics and now the idea of taking all medic ambulances off the roads between certain hours of the morning. They can't even cover their own calls.

Yes, and FDNY EMS also has had OT problems. NYMedic 828 could tell you better, but they had what's called the "KVO" program (Known Vacancy Opening). IIRC, if you sign up for three OT shifts, you can't be mandated to work any additional shifts that month. That program would get suspended on an off due to staffing shortfalls, though. Good luck trying to go to classes when you're held over all the time.

 

[46Young]

Next time I get an offer can I send it to you to analyze?

Sure. Or at least we can discuss what questions to ask, but something tells me that you could teach me a thing or two instead

 

[Veneficus]

Sure. Or at least we can discuss what questions to ask, but something tells me that you could teach me a thing or two instead

Probably not, numbers are not my strong suit.

But I can analyze the :censored::censored::censored::censored: out of systems and operations.

 

[46Young]

And as far as when a department tells you there is ample OT doesn't necessarily mean that they are dysfunctional. Many of your larger departments (IE FDNY, LA City, LA County, DC Fire/EMS, Frisco just to name a few) including Austin will have the OT available due to vacation and sick time being utilized. And when you have a department with 400-1000 employees there are bound to be quite a few holes everyday, not to mention any vacancies that may already exist.

Sorry to quote you again, but I forgot - the better funded and more employee-friendly departments will have a certain amount of pad personnel assigned to stations as a rule, for the purposes of vacation and sick relief. In the morning, our staffiing coordination and the BC's look at vacancies, and then move people to different stations to cover the holes. At the station level, employees work out who's turn it is for detail. When you have just enough people to staff the units (if you're lucky), then sick calls are likely to result in holdover, especially if people already are getting held on a regular basis, and don't sign up for voluntary OT as a result.

When I worked for Charleston, on paper it says that you request time off and if the staffing ratio is adequate, you get the day. What really happens on the down-low is that you can only get off if either you bang in sick, or if you get someone to work OT in your place. This, and having to be available for recall twice monthly for no additional stipend were two of my worst gripes with the place.

 

[46Young]

Probably not, numbers are not my strong suit.

But I can analyze the :censored::censored::censored::censored: out of systems and operations.

"The Truth About Money" by Ric Edelman (whatever the latest edition is, not the 2003 version) is a good place to start for personal finance

 

[NYMedic828]

Yes, and FDNY EMS also has had OT problems. NYMedic 828 could tell you better, but they had what's called the "KVO" program (Known Vacancy Opening). IIRC, if you sign up for three OT shifts, you can't be mandated to work any additional shifts that month. That program would get suspended on an off due to staffing shortfalls, though. Good luck trying to go to classes when you're held over all the time.

In 4 years I think I have been mandated less than 6 times. (two of them were in major storms/blizzard conditions so I wouldn't of driven home anyway)

If you have class, you just log on and say "ehhh, im not feeling so good put me out sick." And go home...

KVOs are not so much anymore for avoiding mandation as they are for securing overtime in order to feed your family on low EMS wages.

I almost never work overtime. I work a second job here in a flycar that no one bothers me at. I hate most of my coworkers, I hate almost all of my bosses (because they are almost all sleezy scum once they make boss) and I get pissed if I have to stay for even a minute past my scheduled end time.


The second I make firefighter I will not set foot on an NYC ambulance ever again. (Unless they implement firefighter/paramedics which will never happen in NYC because that would be a practical idea...)




In relation to the thread, paying a medic to work as an EMT is common practice here. Why am I going to pay you medic salary when insurance pays me for a BLS transport?

 

[46Young]

In 4 years I think I have been mandated less than 6 times. (two of them were in major storms/blizzard conditions so I wouldn't of driven home anyway)

If you have class, you just log on and say "ehhh, im not feeling so good put me out sick." And go home...

KVOs are not so much anymore for avoiding mandation as they are for securing overtime in order to feed your family on low EMS wages.

I almost never work overtime. I work a second job here in a flycar that no one bothers me at. I hate most of my coworkers, I hate almost all of my bosses (because they are almost all sleezy scum once they make boss) and I get pissed if I have to stay for even a minute past my scheduled end time.


The second I make firefighter I will not set foot on an NYC ambulance ever again. (Unless they implement firefighter/paramedics which will never happen in NYC because that would be a practical idea...)




In relation to the thread, paying a medic to work as an EMT is common practice here. Why am I going to pay you medic salary when insurance pays me for a BLS transport?

Do you mean medics working for medic pay on a BLS bus? The thread is about ATC-EMS downgrading a portion of their doble medic buses to medic-basic, and paying new medics the same as BLS or an EMT-I until a medic II spot opens up. What we've inferred thus far is that even though they've downgraded to medic/EMT, they can still have some of those units be double medic without paying the second medic their rightful medic pay.

Basically, it looks like the non medic II spot can be whatever, but it will pay at the EMT rate regardles.

Good luck at the Rock! I got tired of sitting on street corners too. After getting out of our fire academy, my formerly single role EMS classmates have all said the same thing - theat they would never go back to that type of work environment.

 

[NYMedic828]

Do you mean medics working for medic pay on a BLS bus? The thread is about ATC-EMS downgrading a portion of their doble medic buses to medic-basic, and paying new medics the same as BLS or an EMT-I until a medic II spot opens up. What we've inferred thus far is that even though they've downgraded to medic/EMT, they can still have some of those units be double medic without paying the second medic their rightful medic pay.

Basically, it looks like the non medic II spot can be whatever, but it will pay at the EMT rate regardles.

Good luck at the Rock! I got tired of sitting on street corners too. After getting out of our fire academy, my formerly single role EMS classmates have all said the same thing - theat they would never go back to that type of work environment.

Ah I didn't fully read the threat.

FDNY wise, many EMTs take an outside medic program and may have to wait up to 6 months after completion of their course to be promoted to paramedic. In that time they work as an EMT and they do not have any medic privileges.

I was referring more to outside agencies though such as hospital units that will gladly hire you as an EMT but that is with your agreeing that your title is EMT and they will pay you as such. If a medic spot opens up, they will rightfully promote you if you desire.



And thanks, 2 months to go hopefully can't wait. Have to go finish up my investigation tomorrow morning.

 

[ExpatMedic0]

If the information and inferences in this thread are accurate, then that's sad. There aren't too many EMS agencies around that are desireable. If I had known about ATC-EMS back in 2006, I probably would have applied and worked there instead of going to Charleston before the FD, and who knows, I might have still been there today. It sounds like things are going in the wrong direction at ATC from what I'm reading and seeing here. Disappointing.

+1 could not agree more, I hope I am wrong...

 

[46Young]

Ah I didn't fully read the threat.

FDNY wise, many EMTs take an outside medic program and may have to wait up to 6 months after completion of their course to be promoted to paramedic. In that time they work as an EMT and they do not have any medic privileges.

I was referring more to outside agencies though such as hospital units that will gladly hire you as an EMT but that is with your agreeing that your title is EMT and they will pay you as such. If a medic spot opens up, they will rightfully promote you if you desire.



And thanks, 2 months to go hopefully can't wait. Have to go finish up my investigation tomorrow morning.

It's different if you're hired as an EMT-B, agree to that, but are restricted to BLS. It's when you're hired into and paid for an EMT spot but they want you to do ALS that this becomes shady.

I was lucky that I graduated medic class in 9/2005, and was in the medic upgrade class maybe two weeks later. North Shore-LIJ took a different, more appropriate approach than ATC-EMS IMO:

-Medic II if six months FT paid ALS 911 experience, or five years volunteer ALS 911, who can ride lead on a 911 bus, and do any non CCT IFT call, or

-Medic I if not qualified for Medic II, needs to ride with Medic II in 911, only basic IFT calls such as single drips, no vent jobs, no STEMI or Stroke Calls, that sort of thing. Can be 2nd ALS provider on a CCT with a Medic III (CCT).

Back in 2005, EMT pay was around $15/hr up to $20/hr after a year. Medic I was $22/hr up to $25 after six months. Medic II was $26-something up to $30/hr after six months, and Medic III's got $33/hr, but were IFT only. This was a 40 hour workweek, and 10% night differential applied.

 

[46Young]

+1 could not agree more, I hope I am wrong...

If the budget is the issue, at least be honest about it, and I caould understand the staffing and deployment changes, but I still can't agree with paying someone basic pay but ask them to provide ALS.

Even employees that assume an acting status for a higher grade position typically get 5-10% acting pay, just sayin'

 

[marshmallow22]

I'll clear some skepticisms...

Whether you're a paramedic or EMT you'll be hired as a medic 1 at the medic 1 pay rate regardless of any prior experience. Yes, I agree this may limit the # of experienced applicants we get, but experience does not always mean a good candidate. Once hired, they will attend the academy lasting aprroximately 8 weeks, ride 3rd man then eventually 2nd man for a few months, and then test for credentialing at the BLS level only. They may be wearing a paramedic patch, but are ONLY able to practice at the credentialed level ID badge which will be BLS regardless if they're a paramedic or not. So the notion that the department is hiring paramedics and paying them EMT wages to perform paramedic work is 100% false. I'll be more than happy to clear up any other falsehoods/rumors and answer any other questions. Thanks.

 

[18G]

I'll clear some skepticisms...

Whether you're a paramedic or EMT you'll be hired as a medic 1 at the medic 1 pay rate regardless of any prior experience. Yes, I agree this may limit the # of experienced applicants we get, but experience does not always mean a good candidate. Once hired, they will attend the academy lasting aprroximately 8 weeks, ride 3rd man then eventually 2nd man for a few months, and then test for credentialing at the BLS level only. They may be wearing a paramedic patch, but are ONLY able to practice at the credentialed level ID badge which will be BLS regardless if they're a paramedic or not. So the notion that the department is hiring paramedics and paying them EMT wages to perform paramedic work is 100% false. I'll be more than happy to clear up any other falsehoods/rumors and answer any other questions. Thanks.

So I would have to go through 8 weeks of an academy, ride as a 3rd person, then as a 2nd person, and then after all of that take a BLS test!?!? HOW STUPID IS THAT! Why is a Paramedic taking a credentialing exam at a BLS level???

And further more, why would an EMS provider being permitted to only provide a BLS level of care be misrepresenting their level of care delivery by wearing a patch that says Paramedic??? What happens if the EMT who is actually a Paramedic is needed to provide ALS interventions? Are they allowed to do so?

This is a really convoluted and idiotic process.

 

[marshmallow22]

Yes, that's correct... academy, field training, then credentialing testing as a BLS provider only. In our system you are recognized to provide the level of care at which your ID badge that you wear identifies you at, regardless of your patch. There are a few firefighters on AFD that are licensed paramedics in Texas who are not allowed to perform ALS skills because they are not CREDENTIALED by the medical director in the sysytem at the ALS level. AFD is strictly a BLS provider regardless what the patch says. I agree it would be frustrating to be a licensed medic and not be able to perform the skills you went to school for. As for now though it is what it is whether we or anybody else likes it or not.

 

[46Young]

Yes, that's correct... academy, field training, then credentialing testing as a BLS provider only. In our system you are recognized to provide the level of care at which your ID badge that you wear identifies you at, regardless of your patch. There are a few firefighters on AFD that are licensed paramedics in Texas who are not allowed to perform ALS skills because they are not CREDENTIALED by the medical director in the sysytem at the ALS level. AFD is strictly a BLS provider regardless what the patch says. I agree it would be frustrating to be a licensed medic and not be able to perform the skills you went to school for. As for now though it is what it is whether we or anybody else likes it or not.

So, why didn't you just say what you did over the last two posts seven pages ago instead of complaining about us speculating?

We took educated guesses because the things we described are common throughout EMS.

 

[medicsb]

(Unless they implement firefighter/paramedics which will never happen in NYC because that would be a practical idea...)

:rofl:
:wacko:
:rofl:
:wacko:
:rofl:
:wacko:

(Couldn't resist.)

 

[DrParasite]

Back in 2005, EMT pay was around $15/hr up to $20/hr after a year. Medic I was $22/hr up to $25 after six months. Medic II was $26-something up to $30/hr after six months, and Medic III's got $33/hr, but were IFT only. This was a 40 hour workweek, and 10% night differential applied.

ugh, 33 an hour for your most experienced medics, but you only do IFTs? I would kill myself, esp if I was considered the highest level of training at my agency. Unstable IFTs are one thing (STEMI, Strokes, etc, anything where there is a life threat from a very recent illness or injury), but a very stable IFT? where the patient needs a monitor for a procedure tomorrow morning? I couldn't do it, and I know quite a few medics (actually a whole lot) who would die or boredom. Just a personal opinion, your opinion may be different.

And yes, I do know quite a few RNs who do CCTs, and they are often partnered with a paramedic (so they can do ALS 911 calls when not on a CCT). They have similar opinions about CCTs, especially the prescheduled ones.

KVOs are not so much anymore for avoiding mandation as they are for securing overtime in order to feed your family on low EMS wages.

and why do they pay low wages? because people will work for such low wages. Then again, I'd rather work OT on my schedule than being forced, or a side job, since usually OT pays more

I almost never work overtime. I work a second job here in a flycar that no one bothers me at. I hate most of my coworkers, I hate almost all of my bosses (because they are almost all sleezy scum once they make boss) and I get pissed if I have to stay for even a minute past my scheduled end time.

not for nothing, but you must be a joy to work with. I'm curious what your coworkers think of you.

Than again, from the FDNY firefighter who started out in EMS, while they are happier on the engine than on the ambulance, they either 1) took the open competitive test instead of the promotion or 2) didn't have as miserable of an attitude as you seem to have. Again, I don't know you personally, but based on your opinion of your coworkers.

The second I make firefighter I will not set foot on an NYC ambulance ever again. (Unless they implement firefighter/paramedics which will never happen in NYC because that would be a practical idea...)

yeah, because FF/PM in NYC makes absolutely 0 sense. most places FF/PM is a waste of money, and NYC would be no exception. paying their EMS crews better and having more ambulances to handle the call volume is a much better idea than wasting a paramedic on a fire truck.

In relation to the thread, paying a medic to work as an EMT is common practice here. Why am I going to pay you medic salary when insurance pays me for a BLS transport?

Boston does it too (which was already mentioned). If you want your foot in the door, starting BLS is often the easiest way to get into a medic spot. I know a couple places that will hire paramedics, and let them work as EMTs for an EMT rate. One place will actually pay new medics who were hired as EMTs medic salaries until a full time medic spot opens up.

BTW, NJ has some paramedics who are volunteers in EMS. They are only able to act as EMTs, as the agency is only a BLS level agency. I'm pretty sure it's the same for Paramedics whose job description is as a BLS provider.