Austin Travis County EMS hiring Paramedics and paying them as Basics

[ExpatMedic0]

it states right on the website 15 bucks an hour as you can see from my above quote. That comes out to around $29,000 a year before taxes.... and as I stated who do you think they will choose to fill the slot for that pay?

I guess it would just suck if your a paramedic in Austin who chose to get your college degree so you get the fancy gold patch and be licensed I guess it wont do much for you there

 

[STXmedic]

I made over $15.00 an hour as an EMT in Oregon...

I guess where I am getting at is this. ATC use to have 2 Paramedics making Paramedic wages on each ambulance. According to what I have read they are having a budget crisis and cut each ambulance to have 1 Paramedic and 1 EMT. They claim this was not done to save money, yet there way over there budget right from what I have read in the Austin news paper and JEMS. NOW There accepting "anyone" to fill the 2nd non Paramedic on each ambulance.

I would imagine if I was a hiring manager and some EMT-B's, EMT-I's, EMT-P's and EMT-P's with college degrees applied I would choose the EMT-P's with college degree's. Your getting " a lot more for your money" and when your in a budget crises it would make a lot of sense. So now tell me this, since this is not just a probational thing its now your official job title... how long does a Paramedic have to work for this? Is it even possible any longer to be hired directly as a Paramedic?

I am not sure but I think I see this as a way to save money at the cost of the employee.

Yeah, basics don't get paid that much here. $11/hr is about average.

I agree that a medic would have a leg up on a basic or intermediate in the hiring process. They wouldn't have to pay for the lower levels to go through P school, so it would be cheaper in the long run. The licensed paramedic over the certified: maybe, maybe not. If ATC does pay extra for a college degree that a Licensed Paramedic would have, why would they hunt for somebody that try would have to pay more to; especially when there is no difference in capabilities between the two. As for a LP being better educated, most LPs I know have degrees in fields completely unrelated from a past career (Geology, English, Liberal Arts, etc).

I agree that it's most certainly a way to save money. But none of their current employees are effected by it, and everyone that is hired as an EMS Medic 1 knows that's the position they are bing hired for. So I dot necessarily think its at the cost of the employee. To the medics, it may have been better with the previous system. If you come in as a basic though, you're getting higher pay, a job you couldn't have gotten previously, and potentially your medic school paid for.

To my knowledge, there's nothing that's shown that a dual medic service is superior to a P/B service. So if you can maintain your standard of care, and can do it with a P/B for cheaper, and you don't screw any of your current employees, then why not?

And no, I don't believe they will be hiring paramedics any longer as an EMS Medic 2.

 

[ExpatMedic0]

I have just been following ATC the past few years and it was a future agency I was interested in at least considering... I guess I am just worried there going downhill and I was interested to hear your guys feedback and if you think this is just a backdoor way to hire the highest level paramedics in the state and work them for less pay?

 

[STXmedic]

I have just been following ATC the past few years and it was a future agency I was interested in at least considering... I guess I am just worried there going downhill and I was interested to hear your guys feedback and if you think this is just a backdoor way to hire the highest level paramedics in the state and work them for less pay?

If you want to get burnt out quick, ATC is the place for you. If you want a system with ATC's reputation but actually deserves it, with the same great pay, even better protocols, and in the same area, forget ATC and go to WilCo.

 

[ExpatMedic0]

well the city of Austin appeals to me also ;-)

 

[STXmedic]

well the city of Austin appeals to me also ;-)

And still right down the street from wilco

I agree; I'll probably be moving there in 2-3 years. Well worth the hour to hour and a half commute.

 

[marshmallow22]

I love coming on to these forums and seeing all the speculation regarding a certain department, ususally by someone who has no idea what they're talking about. True ATCEMS is hiring for "medic 1" positions. Whether you're an EMT or Paramedic does not matter. Reasoning behind it has nothing to do with budget problems. In the ATCEMS system approximately 80% are BLS. Therefore, ALS skills are rarely used. Secondly, ATCEMS's plan is a 60/40 split, not EVERY truck. Thirdly, the $15 an hr comes to quite a bit more than 29k per year with built in overtime, and also the ability to pick up a TON of extra shifts. There are not too many EMS only departments in the country that have the depth that ATCEMS has in regards to what you can do in the department. There's Spec. Ops, Tactical, Motorcycles, Bike Medics, Gators, etc. Also, even AS a paramedic working in another state (I.E. California), you're stuck on a private with poor conditions, low pay, no respect, and playing politics to the fire department. Personally, I'd rather take an EMT position with a top rated department making more than most medics in other states, earning city benefits including a pension (similar to CALPERS), and now civil service with the opportunity to promote. Yes, you'll be busy, but that's what you signed up for when you work for the now 14th largest city in the country. So before you spout off with a bunch of nonsense, do some research and get your facts straight!

 

[jgmedic]

I'd heard it was due to the fact that most medics could not pass their hiring process, so this way they can train them to their standards while hiring more than 2-3 people per process.

 

[Fish]

I love coming on to these forums and seeing all the speculation regarding a certain department, ususally by someone who has no idea what they're talking about. True ATCEMS is hiring for "medic 1" positions. Whether you're an EMT or Paramedic does not matter. Reasoning behind it has nothing to do with budget problems. In the ATCEMS system approximately 80% are BLS. Therefore, ALS skills are rarely used. Secondly, ATCEMS's plan is a 60/40 split, not EVERY truck. Thirdly, the $15 an hr comes to quite a bit more than 29k per year with built in overtime, and also the ability to pick up a TON of extra shifts. There are not too many EMS only departments in the country that have the depth that ATCEMS has in regards to what you can do in the department. There's Spec. Ops, Tactical, Motorcycles, Bike Medics, Gators, etc. Also, even AS a paramedic working in another state (I.E. California), you're stuck on a private with poor conditions, low pay, no respect, and playing politics to the fire department. Personally, I'd rather take an EMT position with a top rated department making more than most medics in other states, earning city benefits including a pension (similar to CALPERS), and now civil service with the opportunity to promote. Yes, you'll be busy, but that's what you signed up for when you work for the now 14th largest city in the country. So before you spout off with a bunch of nonsense, do some research and get your facts straight!

Came off as a bit rude there, had a chance to answer some questions about your system and educate people who do not know any better, but chose another route I guess huh? Austin is large, and even most Medics within the ATCEMS system cannot agree on why the change came about, so of course your going to have a lot of speculation by the outisde world.

 

[46Young]

Some new graduate RNs will work as techs for a few months before a RN job opens up on the floor they want. Or some people get tech jobs in ICUs, even though they have an RN license, with the hope that they will be offered a job as a nurse when available.

I do not see a problem with it. It is the person's choice to take that lower paid job with the expectation of moving up. If you do not like it then get a job at another company. But I am guessing the places doing this are good companies with a lot of applicants applying.

Personally, if a good ICU offered me a job but required me to work as a tech for 6 months I would still probably take it. It all comes down to how bad you want the job and if it is worth the wait.

"If you do not like it then get a job at another company" is fine, but then we can't complain when more and more people marginalize the field as a stepping stone job. If companies are going to nickle and dime me like that, I'm going to have no remorse in using them for my needs until something better comes up. Hence the transient nature of the EMS workforce.

 

[46Young]

It's not really that uncommon of a practice, I know a few companies around here have been thinking of doing something like that, or already have.

When you have a budget crisis, but have the benefit of being in a hiring market saturated with paramedics who are desperate for a job, why not pay them EMT wages? Sure, I don't personally like the practice, but it's a smart move in my opinion. You get a higher level provider for a lower cost, smart move on the employers side of things.

The way I see it, this has the potential to increase employee performance, at least in theory. You have a paramedic who performs at a satisfactory level, and is content with that, but then you add in a large pool of paramedics who are working for EMT wages with the promise of getting the next open medic spot. Soon that medic will realize that those medics below them want their spot, and they're going to be working hard to get it, so what's that do to the other medic? It might make him perform just a little bit better to ensure he keeps his spot.

This is why the EMS labor force is so transient, and EMS cannot progress in education and pay due to lack of organization. The companies are doing everything they can to get labor on the cheap, and then the existing medics have to worry about job security since they might get bumped by a newer employee? This actually happens in quite a few places - the tenured, more expensive employee gets pushed out for the newer, cheaper employee. No wonder so many people use EMS as a temporary position until they can start an actual career.

 

[46Young]

It's been known down here that they are doing that. Right or wrong, that's how they're doing it. If you don't like it, don't apply. Odds are a paramedic spot will open up pretty quick anyway; ATC has a considerably high turn-over.

Besides, their basics still get paid better than most medics.

J/C, why does ATC-EMS have high turnover?

 

[Veneficus]

I love coming on to these forums and seeing all the speculation regarding a certain department, ususally by someone who has no idea what they're talking about. True ATCEMS is hiring for "medic 1" positions. Whether you're an EMT or Paramedic does not matter. Reasoning behind it has nothing to do with budget problems. In the ATCEMS system approximately 80% are BLS. Therefore, ALS skills are rarely used. Secondly, ATCEMS's plan is a 60/40 split, not EVERY truck. Thirdly, the $15 an hr comes to quite a bit more than 29k per year with built in overtime, and also the ability to pick up a TON of extra shifts. There are not too many EMS only departments in the country that have the depth that ATCEMS has in regards to what you can do in the department. There's Spec. Ops, Tactical, Motorcycles, Bike Medics, Gators, etc. Also, even AS a paramedic working in another state (I.E. California), you're stuck on a private with poor conditions, low pay, no respect, and playing politics to the fire department. Personally, I'd rather take an EMT position with a top rated department making more than most medics in other states, earning city benefits including a pension (similar to CALPERS), and now civil service with the opportunity to promote. Yes, you'll be busy, but that's what you signed up for when you work for the now 14th largest city in the country. So before you spout off with a bunch of nonsense, do some research and get your facts straight!

Not agency specific but I would like to point out...

In any industry, built in OT and the ability to pick up extra shifts means your pay sucks.

It doesn't matter if it is an extra shift at your primary agency or a second or third job at another. If you are working extra for reason other than personal enjoyment, then you do not have a viable job.

In my younger days I thought I was the selfless defender of society, respected, looked up to etc.

Forget that crap, it doesn't put food on the table or pay for a family. Either show me the money or keep your extra duties and "hardcore" mentality.

(for the record, I work a lot because I want to, not because I need to, the fact I get paid for it is a bonus)

 

[46Young]

I love coming on to these forums and seeing all the speculation regarding a certain department, ususally by someone who has no idea what they're talking about. True ATCEMS is hiring for "medic 1" positions. Whether you're an EMT or Paramedic does not matter. Reasoning behind it has nothing to do with budget problems. In the ATCEMS system approximately 80% are BLS. Therefore, ALS skills are rarely used. Secondly, ATCEMS's plan is a 60/40 split, not EVERY truck. Thirdly, the $15 an hr comes to quite a bit more than 29k per year with built in overtime, and also the ability to pick up a TON of extra shifts. There are not too many EMS only departments in the country that have the depth that ATCEMS has in regards to what you can do in the department. There's Spec. Ops, Tactical, Motorcycles, Bike Medics, Gators, etc. Also, even AS a paramedic working in another state (I.E. California), you're stuck on a private with poor conditions, low pay, no respect, and playing politics to the fire department. Personally, I'd rather take an EMT position with a top rated department making more than most medics in other states, earning city benefits including a pension (similar to CALPERS), and now civil service with the opportunity to promote. Yes, you'll be busy, but that's what you signed up for when you work for the now 14th largest city in the country. So before you spout off with a bunch of nonsense, do some research and get your facts straight!

So, from what you say, they actually are paying new medics an EMT's salary, and they are dropping a number of their double medic units to medic/EMT. Doesn't sound like speculation to me.

Now, does that built in OT come as part of the regular schedule? If so, how much, so we can get a true total compensation picture? If it's a 48 hour workweek, that's $40,560/yr. If it's a 56 hour workweek, it's $49,920/yr. This is how employers get over on you. $50k/yr sounds real good, but it comes in the form of a 56 hour workweek, which is 40% more hours worked than a 40 hour employee, which actually works out to be a third of your life while employed there. For every five 56 hour employees, the system saves the cost of hiring two FT employees, if the workweek was actually 40 hours like most of the country. 56 x 5 = 40 x 7. They don't have to pay for benefits, hiring, training, or retirement, but they still want to pay you $15/hr. Quite the racket. Buy five (employees) get one free with the 48 hour workweek, the concept's the same. In a pension system, the benefits and retirement alone can approach 100% of the employee's salary.

This crap flies in the fire service as well; the worst is the federal FF jobs - 48/72's, or perpetual 24 on, 24 off.

Also, if there's a ton of OT, then there's also either a ton of mandatory holdovers, or they're putting units out-of-service. The mandatory holdovers burn out the employees, and so does OOS units, since that makes everyone that much busier. Nothing like getting railed for 24 hours and then being told that you're stuck for 12-24 more, especially on a consistent basis.

 

[46Young]

Not agency specific but I would like to point out...

In any industry, built in OT and the ability to pick up extra shifts means your pay sucks.

Right. See my above post. 56 hours = buy five, get two free, and a 48 hour workweek = buy 5, get one free. These employers aren't stupid.

An employee's benefits including retirement can range from 50% to 100% of an employees salary as a cost to the employer. Up to a point, it's cheaper to provide OT shifts and also to do mandatory holdover, since it's cheaper than hiring a new employee and having to pay for benefits. They're certainly not passing this savings onto their employees in the form of increased base pay.

 

[xrsm002]

I used to work for a company in Texas that to keep up with the oil boom is paying EMT 15/hr Intermediates 17 and medics 19/hr. however their trucks are crappy but you could work 8,10,12,or 24 shift

 

[Veneficus]

I used to work for a company in Texas that to keep up with the oil boom is paying EMT 15/hr Intermediates 17 and medics 19/hr. however their trucks are crappy but you could work 8,10,12,or 24 shift

I would not accept making $19 an hour if I were still a medic.

Anything under $20 I would not even consider. $25 would get consideration if it came with a 32-36 hour work week and full benefits.

Because you can get that or more as an ER tech or teaching AHA classes full time, not breaking your back on the street.

I know medics who only teach AHA classes 9-4 (if by some miracle it doesn't start at 9:20 because of late students) monday through friday no holidays or weekends that net 4-6K a month doing it.

Sit through an ACLS class and see how little work teaching one is.

You might strain your typing finger pressing "play" on the DVD, but it is definately not hard work, and you spend more time doing what you want outside of work.

 

[STXmedic]

J/C, why does ATC-EMS have high turnover?

Mostly call volume. Medics running 20-30 runs consistently on a 24hr shift. One of the medics I know that works there has been there for about 8 years; out of of his hiring class of 20, he and one other guy are the only ones left. Everyone I know that works there agrees that there's a reason they're hiring nearly 40 people a year, and it's not from replacing retirees. My partner (former ATC medic) also has a lot of complaints about management and supervisors there. I'm sure marshmallow will disagree, though... :unsure:

 

[marshmallow22]

Say what you want, but the fact that we have hundreds of applicants a year testing for our department (for ony about 30 spots) says something. Secondly, I'm not recruiting... I have my medic job for which I get paid extremely well, I'm just setting the record straight. Sounds like a lot of bitterness out there from guys who either can't get hired due to their "entitlement" attitude as a new medic, or just don't have what it takes.

 

[STXmedic]

Say what you want, but the fact that we have hundreds of applicants a year testing for our department (for ony about 30 spots) says something. Secondly, I'm not recruiting... I have my medic job for which I get paid extremely well, I'm just setting the record straight. Sounds like a lot of bitterness out there from guys who either can't get hired due to their "entitlement" attitude as a new medic, or just don't have what it takes.

:rofl: Oh, believe me, I am by no means bitter and I also have a job that I get paid extremely well for. I'm sorry, you only have 30 people quit per year, not 40. You have hundreds of medics applying, because there are hundreds of medics looking for jobs and y'all pay better than a private company. Sorry, I just like to know both sides of the coin and not just coat everything with sprinkles and marshmallows.