Are EMS providers hated?

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Fastfrankie19151 said:
I simply mean it’s not uncommon where I am anyway that we get confused with the police. Patients on scenes have refused to talk to me thinking I was the police or in some occasions I have had parents tell their children don’t talk to him he will tell the po po. And on the rare occasion we have had stuff thrown at ambulances in my area.
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Folks burn down their neighbor's businesses in a lot of places too...more of an indicator of cultural decay than animus toward any single agency, IMHO...
 
I've never been mistaken for a cop. My paycheck has never looked like a cop's paycheck. our vehicles are different. I don't carry a gun. in fact, the biggest similarity is when the public calls 911, we both show up in a vehicle with flashing lights on it.

While I do agree that our class B uniforms are similar to PD, they are the same design as public works, the gas company, the maintenance man, only with different patches and different colors.

GMCmedic said:
I've heard of local incidents as of late. "Mom would've gotten better care if she was white".


Isolated incidents, but as a whole.I don't think EMS is hated.
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What does that mean, exactly? did mom wait longer? was she not given the correct meds? was this claim investigated by knowledgeable people or was it simply a baseless accusation by an ignorant member of the public? I think they need to be investigated because accusing a medical provider of racially-based clinical practices is a serious charge. Just because momma died doesn't mean the provider screwed up; and if the investigation reveals that no racism occurred, then a formal and public apology needs to be given, and the member of the public educated that mom's race had nothing to do with the care she received.
 
DrParasite said:
What does that mean, exactly? did mom wait longer? was she not given the correct meds? was this claim investigated by knowledgeable people or was it simply a baseless accusation by an ignorant member of the public? I think they need to be investigated because accusing a medical provider of racially-based clinical practices is a serious charge.
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Accomplishing this would take a dedicated agency that would be 10 years behind when it opened it's doors. It was bad enough before race baiting ideologies became institutionalized, but now that's really kicking a turd on a hot day...
 
E tank said:
Accomplishing this would take a dedicated agency that would be 10 years behind when it opened it's doors. It was bad enough before race baiting ideologies became institutionalized, but now that's really kicking a turd on a hot day...
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Good data gives us an idea of where to start looking, though, and a QA department can do it, led by the literature. See, for example, a 2018 study published in Prehospital Emergency Care suggesting there is indeed at least one issue -- if you can use NEMSIS data for that, seems like a good QA review that could be performed, for educational purposes. This is not to say, of course, that there is a problem at every agency or among every provider...but you can sure check.
 
EpiEMS said:
Good data gives us an idea of where to start looking, though, and a QA department can do it, led by the literature. See, for example, a 2018 study published in Prehospital Emergency Care suggesting there is indeed at least one issue -- if you can use NEMSIS data for that, seems like a good QA review that could be performed, for educational purposes. This is not to say, of course, that there is a problem at every agency or among every provider...but you can sure check.
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link doesn't appear to be working...
 
EpiEMS said:
Good data gives us an idea of where to start looking, though, and a QA department can do it, led by the literature. See, for example, a 2018 study published in Prehospital Emergency Care suggesting there is indeed at least one issue -- if you can use NEMSIS data for that, seems like a good QA review that could be performed, for educational purposes. This is not to say, of course, that there is a problem at every agency or among every provider...but you can sure check.
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So, I remember this paper when it came out and where and where to apply it's findings is a different question than bystanders and families accusing ambulance crews of withholding care solely on the basis of the patient not being white. Gets really murky when a lot of the scene personnel aren't either.

Taken in that vein, we might conclude from this abstract that pre-hospital personnel don't like babies. Broad data base searches can turn up all kinds of conclusions depending on how you skew the filters as I'm sure you're well aware. The real purpose of a paper like this would be to fine tune a question moving forward for further study, which may or may not be on-going or done...I don't know.

But if the issue is teasing out malfeasance by racist paramedics because of the widespread cultural tendency to assume wrong doing when something bad has happened, good luck with that.

I've always appreciated your orientation toward statistical research. Thanks for the link.
 
E tank said:
So, I remember this paper when it came out and where and where to apply it's findings is a different question than bystanders and families accusing ambulance crews of withholding care solely on the basis of the patient not being white. Gets really murky when a lot of the scene personnel aren't either.

Taken in that vein, we might conclude from this abstract that pre-hospital personnel don't like babies. Broad data base searches can turn up all kinds of conclusions depending on how you skew the filters as I'm sure you're well aware. The real purpose of a paper like this would be to fine tune a question moving forward for further study, which may or may not be on-going or done...I don't know.

But if the issue is teasing out malfeasance by racist paramedics because of the widespread cultural tendency to assume wrong doing when something bad has happened, good luck with that.

I've always appreciated your orientation toward statistical research. Thanks for the link.
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I’m on the same page - lots of limitations to broad database research but it can be used to fine tune. It is definitely different than scene related instances. That said, I think there is at least some empirical basis for suggesting that some subset of providers *may* provide suboptimal care to certain groups...of course, if somebody is providing bad care to one group, I have to wonder if they are providing bad care generally.
 
Well, I just started hating them here. (Thailand). Shades of the US 1960s. Physicians up in arms about medicine being practiced outside their supervision. Want a nurse along on any ambulance that performs advanced life saving techniques. A new flavor of EMT has been created, Emergency Medical Responder. I >THINK< they are trained to perform CPR. As for the general public's attitude, hated? No. Feared, yes. Relying on the emergency response network is a serious gamble where they check the size of your wallet before taking your pulse.
Excuse me. I need to go slam some doors and kick the cats.
 
RedBlanketRunner said:
Well, I just started hating them here. (Thailand). Shades of the US 1960s. Physicians up in arms about medicine being practiced outside their supervision. Want a nurse along on any ambulance that performs advanced life saving techniques. A new flavor of EMT has been created, Emergency Medical Responder. I >THINK< they are trained to perform CPR. As for the general public's attitude, hated? No. Feared, yes. Relying on the emergency response network is a serious gamble where they check the size of your wallet before taking your pulse.
Excuse me. I need to go slam some doors and kick the cats.
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So...US EMS is good for you now?
 
CCCSD said:
So...US EMS is good for you now?
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Show me an EMS that doesn't review the calls, undertake critiques, and always looks for room for improvement. The US is pretty good, but has a long way to go. The know all, end all be all mentality is always the major stumbling block, yes?
I quit EMS because the level of training passed me by and my interests were too diverse. But no complaints. I've had code blue field saves and still get the occasional thank you from CPR students. What you got works.

But I wish some of those entitled docs would STFU. A nurse in her tight white skirt and silly cap out working an extrication or such?
 
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RedBlanketRunner said:
...But I wish some of those entitled docs would STFU. A nurse in her tight white skirt and silly cap out working an extrication or such?
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I’m not entirely sure if what this is actually supposed to mean, that being said I’m a bit disappointed. I never got a silly cap or a white tight skirt. All I’ve got over the yard, free of charge anyway, is a handful of daisies.
 
RedBlanketRunner said:
Show me an EMS that doesn't review the calls, undertake critiques, and always looks for room for improvement. The US is pretty good, but has a long way to go. The know all, end all be all mentality is always the major stumbling block, yes?
I quit EMS because the level of training passed me by and my interests were too diverse. But no complaints. I've had code blue field saves and still get the occasional thank you from CPR students. What you got works.

But I wish some of those entitled docs would STFU. A nurse in her tight white skirt and silly cap out working an extrication or such?
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That went out with the 70s...
 
Now that I've removed a bunch of off topic posts, this thread can continue. If I have to do it again, bans will be issued.
 
RedBlanketRunner said:
But I wish some of those entitled docs would STFU. A nurse in her tight white skirt and silly cap out working an extrication or such?
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Completely anecdotal, but the last time I had a nurse working an extraction, it was when we pulled up to a rollover on the GSP and I saw a pair of legs sticking out of the driver's side door. the Nurse, in scrubs, was on her way to work, came upon the crash, and provided assistance before the AHJ arrived. once we showed up, she gave us a quick handoff, and went on her way, with my thanks. True, she was an ER nurse, so this experience might not be the norm, but you shouldn't disparage an entire profession based on your individual biases.

Oh, and while some nursing schools do still keep the cap for graduation, they don't wear them regularly. in fact, from a global perspective, while the nurses' cap continues to be widely used, the use of the nurses' cap had begun to slowly decline in Western Europe and Northern America by the mid 1970s. The use of nurses' caps in the medical facilities of the United States all but disappeared by the late 1980s with the near universal adoption of "scrubs"

So if you are seeing nurses wearing skirts and caps, keep in mind they are 30 years behind the US, and 40+ years behind western Europe and North America.

BTW, some people in EMS wear baseball hats as part of their "uniform." If you want to, cool, if not, no biggie. That's my same thought on a nurses's cap, it's their choice. I'm sure you can find some 75 year old nurse who still wear her cap every day, because that's what she has done since she graduated nursing school 50 years ago. to each his or her own
 
While I don't think EMS providers are hated, I do think the world has gotten more dangerous. The belief that the bad guys and crazy people won't hurt EMS providers because we are there to help them doesn't apply anymore (if it applied at all).

Are we soft/easy targets? absolutely. the public "knows" we are unarmed, we have drugs that can make them high, and when your are drunk or crazy enough, you don't care that the ambulance people are only there to help you.

While I know the question wasn't about arming EMTs, much of the published articles from people smarter than me comes from the point of view that the world is getting dangerous, so should we be arming EMTs.

The Time Has Come to Arm EMS/Fire. – DT4EMS

Kip Teitsort, Founder DT4EMS It is time to arm EMS/Fire with knowledge of the use-of-force on the job. http://youtu.be/b_zaZX2Xw_c Before we get too deep, riddle me this...
dt4ems.com dt4ems.com
www.ems1.com

Arming the EMS workforce

What recent legislative changes mean for equipping, arming and tactically training SWAT and TEMS medics
www.ems1.com www.ems1.com
www.emsworld.com

The Myth of the Safe Scene

www.emsworld.com www.emsworld.com
www.ambulnz.com

Arming EMTs — Ambulnz

Responding to life-threatening emergencies is an EMT’s job, but at times, it’s the EMTs themselves whose lives are threatened…
www.ambulnz.com www.ambulnz.com
www.emsworld.com

Call to Arms

www.emsworld.com www.emsworld.com

But just because we aren't hated by the general public, doesn't mean we shouldn't utilize PPE as if we were.
 
On which specific metrics would you justify arming EMS personnel?
 
What would be the Use of Force Policy? Cops can’t point a firearm at anyone these days without an automatic law suit. How would EMS fare?
 
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