Ambulance Driver = EMT = Medic

[TKO]

TKO...1) All of your perceptions of me are wrong.

If this is true, consider that my perceptions are drawn from the previous statements and opinions that you have posted in this thread, and one can only conclude that you have misrepresented yourself.

Maybe we can't fund the huge salaries of paramedics (I'm laughing as I write this)

Many rural locations won't fund a 24 hour ALS service when BLS can reach the local clinic within 5 minutes and receive enhanced care from RNs. Fire Rescue is required for extrication for highway MVAs. That's just more money needed and it has to come out of someone's budget.

ALS is critical in large centers where time from scene to hospital is too great to make that coverage effectively. ALS would be better for everyone, but if you have to balance a tight, small budget and you are already staffing RNs, what are you going to do? You are going to hire EMT-Bs and you will want to keep their skills limited to prevent them from being due a larger salary.

We all want better medical coverage, but nobody is willing to pay for it. And I don't support this either but I do try to make the most of it; calling the people that work under me idiots won't improve the system.

 

[BossyCow]

Ya know, it would be wonderful if everyone understood all the details about every profession and what makes them all special. I mean, when I call up the computer guy because he has an ad in the paper and my computer just froze up, sure, it's nice to read that he has an A+ certification but I really don't care.

I worked in a non patient care department in several different hospitals and was called 'Nurse' more times than I can count even though I didn't wear scrubs and my name tag said "Materials Managment".

I just think that our perception of the publics 'need to know' the level of care supposes that they understand there are levels. They don't as a rule. They don't care if they are treated by a Physician's Assistant, Nurse Practitioner or Board Certified Emergency Physician, they just want the broken bone set, the belly pain to stop and the stitches in their kids forehead.

I volunteer with a BLS agency. I've been called a lot of different things in the back of the rig. Some printable. If there's time, I explain the difference between a paramedic and a Basic to the patient but I doubt many of them retain that information.

Maybe its because EMS in my area is not competitive. It's not a matter of this agency has ALS and this is only BLS. We all work together, civic, private, paid and volly with mutual aid in the areas where one has and the other has not.

 

[mfrjason]

I feel that they should come up with one title for everyone and keep it that way cuz like you said matt,its getting too confusing for the public to know what to call us.

 

[Ridryder911]

The title is not is what concerning me as much as the public perceiving that they have Paramedics, when they really don't. Even as ABC news pointed out that many are shocked that they (public) actually do not have responders categorized and not able to perform ALS.

Many are comfortable with their BLS, because they assume they have ALS, as majority of U.S. does. Since ALS has been presented for over thirty years on television, many assume that U.S. would have this as the norm.. not realizing, we (EMS providers) rather prefer to keep things antiquated. Yes, it is a nicely hidden image, we present.

The majority of clarification of titles are from those that did not "go" that extra mile and pursued further education from those that did not. Sure, saying were EMS is easy, it is just as easy to say we're allied health care. It maybe semantics to some, especially when they cannot officially state they are not Paramedics. Would the opinion be the same, if it to say First-Responders were allowed to call themselves EMT's? I am sure the attitude would be different, as it should be.

I am not discussing major promotions, especially when in EMS we have no public relations on a national level.

Sorry, I don't buy in the ..."I can't do it".. again it all depends on your priorities. Just like any other profession, one can get a student loan, grants, work extra shifts, etc. to attend school. Still the same old lame excuses, that EMS should be considered any different than any other profession, I ask why?

What I usually see, is that is not that big of deal, especially from those that cannot use the official Paramedic title. This is similar to when I hear .."I am a nurse".. I can almost assure they are either am LPN, CMA. aide, etc and not a RN, even though they want the public to assume they are RN's. Remember, all titles are always compared with the highest level, which the public is more familiar with.

That is why more and more interest is in removing the title of EMT in Paramedic. For many reasons, legality as the medic becomes more a practitioner than technician, as well many now no longer ever work as an EMT prior to becoming Paramedic. This idea is becoming more and more popular in areas requiring degree levels.

R/r 911

 

[mfrjason]

Even though im mfr and people ask me what my license level is I just tell them im an emt cuz of the fact that the public knows what an emt is more than they know what an mfr is cuz it seems when people here that your an mfr you have to explain to them what that is. When they hear mfr they think firefighter,especially these days since most services are converting to ALS status and getting away from BLS.

 

[beckoncall62]

EMS No Place For Enlarged Egos

I'm also a tad late-but what the heck? Usually people with huge egos tend to be trying to compensate for something they lack-or have very little of. One of my instructors just recently told me (he is a retired paramedic) that he sees just as many of the wrong kind of people becoming paramedics as some of the paramedics feel about EMT-B's. I've participated in a couple other EMS forums-one which was so full of ego-maniacs there was barely room to breathe. They run rampant throughout the posts, and not "moderated" by the so-called moderators-they bash and trash an EMT that has the nerve to share their opinion. As relatively new to EMS, it was extremely discouraging. All that negativity-and very little positive feed-back of any kind. I've been on here for about 3 hrs now reading posts all over this forum. I was very surprised-and pleased-how differently this forum is run.
A few things about me and my commitment to my department and what I do as an EMT-B:
1. I may be new to EMS-but I'm not new to emergency response and life experience. That is what's led me here.
2. I am not nieve (however you spell it) or clueless enough to look at being an EMT as a "hobby" even though I've been lumped into that category by others.
3. I know that we never stop learning-there is ALWAYS more to learn.
4. I've lived and worked in both city and rural settings-and learned enough to know there are major differences.
5. I am a member of a rural fire and rescue department and am fortunate enough to have the opportunity to learn from some of the best EMS personnel-yes the best can even be found out in the toolies. I feel more than qualified to make that judgment, because not only have I worked side by side with them-I've also seen them from the perspective of being the patient.

I'm a bit late to the fun, but I can't help but jump in. My BS-o-meter is ringing off the charts.



Being pre-med is like winning the Special Olympics... well you get my drift. You could be pre-med at a community college, or pre-med at Johns Hopkins.

I thought you didn't know any DOs? I thought they weren't common? Around here we have tons of DOs. Sometimes I've been at a hospital and couldn't find an MD.



There are many reasons why you don't get the respect at the hospital. The hospitals respect me and my partners quite a bit. We treat the hospital staff with respect, dress neatly, do a damn good job, and treat the patients as we'd treat our own family, and the RNs and MDs love us (even the DO's!)

You make $12 for many reasons. Partly because of the lack of education required to be both an EMT and Paramedic, partly because of the high cost of providing EMS services, and partly because a million other reasons. In the inner-city around here Paramedics make $16 an hour, and the real money in EMS comes with overtime. I don't know many other professions that give out so much overtime!



Really? Oh god help me now. EMS is a taxi for the poor for hundreds of reasons. I can't think of a single reason that includes an EMT as the excuse.



I work for a service in a country called the United States of America. There is a waiting list to be hired at my service, and Paramedics go through intensive college-sponsored training to become Critical Care Paramedics. They even get a huge truck with more crap on it than could ever fit in my BLS mod (We moved up from the Type II vans last year, life has been great).



Nah, we have nurses and doctors. A nurse is an RN, BSN, LPN, etc. Doctors are the MDs and DOs. A doctor is a doctor, and a nurse is a nurse.



Deep breath... in.. and out... and in.... and out.

When I read your first message, and then your reply, my first instinct was to tell you to take a deep breath, go sit in a chair outside my classroom, and write down on a piece of paper why I sent you out there.

Then you'd write "Because you disagree with what I say," to which I'd reply "Nah, that's just a cop-out."

I'd then ask you why you were so angry. Did I make you angry? Did I treat you unfairly? What about some of your board-mates? Did someone on this forum treat you unfairly?

You'd give me some BS response about this, that, and why you're a damn good paramedic. I'd reassure you that you may be the best damn paramedic on this forum, but that you're clearly angry about something else.

When it was all said and done we'd be at the root of the problem; why you're so insecure about your position as a Paramedic.

See, I stole this example from my seventh grade classroom. I think this is your issue, not ours.

I love when people disagree. I love to have a passionate debate. But I absolutely won't tolerate ignorance or belittling of others in my classroom or my forum.

That said, I think you need to take some time to evaluate your insecurities. There are countless ways that each and every forum member on this forum is better than you, but they're far too humble to belittle you.

They're professionals.

 

[Guardian]

There’s an old saying that goes “only the very rich understand the difference between themselves and the poor and only the truly brilliant understand the difference between themselves and the dumb.” I love that old saying and I think it might apply here. I have acknowledged a difference between myself and lesser educated EMS providers. I have been demonized for this in a pathetic attempt to debate another issue. Anyone remember that issue? I think it had something to do with the use of the word “medic.”

You can psychoanalyze me all you want. I don’t care about your ignorant preconceived notions. If anything, I’m proud to be pegged as an “ego-maniac.” Our country was built by “ego-maniacs.” Want proof? Study early American politics. Those guys were ruthless. Look at contemporary intellectuals such as Charles Murray, Sam Huntington, and Thomas Sowell. All of these men have been accused of being egomaniacal a-holes. Do you think they care?

I’m not sorry that I don’t measure up to your idea of what a paramedic should be. This is because I know my mindset is akin to the great intellectual leaders of the past and future. Not the meek, meager, and mediocre mindset of complacent individuals who unwittingly halt progress.

 

[Arkymedic]

For a couple years now, since 9/11, there has been an effort to coin the term "Medic" for everyone working in EMS.

The reasoning is that there are far too many titles, many outdated, and they don't reflect the skill and responsibility of the job.

Here are two videos that give more info.

Medic PSA: Windows Media Player - Real Player

What do you think?

I'm all for it.

I know several services that the EMTs polo or badge (depending on service) say Medic and the Paramedics say Paramedic. I don't really agree with this as medic is a professional title that was bestowed upon military healthcare providers first which is why we call ourselves Paramedics. Not trying to be an ******* or hung up on myself or anything but I feel that I busted my *** for two years to earn that title and after spending another 5 yrs as a First Responder and EMT it should not be thrown around lightly.

 

[cprinstructor]

That's how I see it; RN's and LPN's are both nurses, MD's and DO's are both doctors. All EMT grades are medics in my book; just as all paramedics, Int. and Basics are EMT's.

 

[Ridryder911]

That's how I see it; RN's and LPN's are both nurses, MD's and DO's are both doctors. All EMT grades are medics in my book; just as all paramedics, Int. and Basics are EMT's.

The reason many do not see the difference is because they have never went above their initial training. The same as many do not know the difference between RN and LPN, and EMT and Paramedic. True, DO and MD are doctors, but more than that, they are medical physicians. All of my pharmacists have their doctorates, and even some of the nurses I work with are Dr.'s ( PhD, DNSc, J,D,, etc) but not physicians, so titles should be used appropriately in the profession. Not only are they for recognition, but for legal clarification as well.

We may not expect the public to recognize the difference, but we in the profession should and use them appropriately.

R/r 911

 

[Rattletrap]

I'm not saying what you said is wrong, or irrational, but I think you may be missing the bigger picture.

This isn't about your title or my title. The idea behind the term "Medic" is our title.

If an MD can share his or her title with a person who got a PhD in sociology, and a RN can share his or her title with someone who is an LPN, why can you share yours?

Having an ego isn't a bad thing, but what about compromise for the common good?

As an EMT-B and an EMT-I, I hated being called a medic out of respect for those who worked hard for that title. Now as a Medic, I don't mind sharing that title.

How ever, if you want to piss me off, call me an ambulance driver. One it shows disrespect for the people who were the real ambulance drivers who worked hard to get our profession off the ground. Two it is disrespect for me. In WV where I am a medic, I can have a cpr driver and me in a truck to run am emergency. In Oh, where I am also a medic, that is not the case.

I gave up a year of my life and in that time all I saw of my home and for many times, wife and son was the 8 hrs I was at home for sleep. I worked full time and went to class and did clinicals, went home went to bed and got up and did it all over again. I lost out on a lot of time with my son and that hurt my relationship with him. I am spending a lot of time repairing that

So to call me an ambulance driver shows disrespect for my sacrifices and training to be a Paramedic.

 

[oldschoolmedic]

nooooooooooooo............

Please don't open the ambulance driver can-o-worms again.

R/R ignore this thread, he knows not of what he speaks

 

[cprinstructor]

There's no need for legal clarification when calling either an LPN or RN a nurse. They're both nurses. Of couse, we all know LPN's that want to be referred to as nurses rather than LPN's, just as there are paramedics that don't like being referred to as an EMT-P.

 

[medicdan]

As an EMT-B and an EMT-I, I hated being called a medic out of respect for those who worked hard for that title. Now as a Medic, I don't mind sharing that title.

I was just in Israel, and I am going back in about a month to volunteer on an ambulance. I was at a fair and talking to one of their "medics" while checking out one of their ambulances. When I told him that I am an EMT, he didnt understand me-- they use the term "medic" interchangeably, and have a separate term for what is their equivalent to our Paramedic. I felt quite humbled that week, calling myself a medic, then I came back to reality in the US. Not to open up the discussion again, but I think it is all very interesting.

 

[Tactical Medic]

:wacko: OK not to confuse anyone we in the Navy and our Marine Corps brothers call the "medics" Docs

We the "Docs" call the MDs and PAs - Doc, and they inturn call us Doc, LOL :wacko::wacko:

 

[Ridryder911]

There's no need for legal clarification when calling either an LPN or RN a nurse. They're both nurses.

Actually, in my state it is a felony misrepresenting yourself for any license level. For example an LPN calling themselves an RN or a EMT calling themselves a Paramedic .. which could be misinterpertated as calling themselves a medic.

Most states require RN's to have to wear that title on their uniform or body, when working. I know of no state that does not, even in psych hospitals.

So yes, technically and professionally there is a need for clarrification, especially in PCR.

R/r 911

 

[cprinstructor]

And we're talking about how people are referred to, not initials on a badge. If you believe an LPN being referred to as a nurse is incorrect, let alone a felony, you are mistaken. Why? Because an LPN IS a nurse. And as far as an EMT calling themselves a Paramedic, I haven't read anything close to that in this thread. I agree that someone COULD misinterpret someone being called a medic a paramedic; but I'm sure you're aware that when an LPN is called a nurse, someone COULD misinterpret that to mean that the person is an RN. Nobody is talking about misrepresenting themselves, let alone commiting a crime. I think you're stretching things a bit here.

 

[BossyCow]

There are several different topics here. One is someone deliberately misrepresenting themselves as having a higher medical credential than they actually possess. This is a felony and with good reason. If I'm applying for a job, or performing skills outside of my scope of training and creating the illusion that I am trained and skilled in them, I am creating a deception and deserve to have the book tossed at me spine first

The second is the misconception among members of the public regarding the various levels of certification which means pretty much nothing to them. They only start to care when they want you to do something that you can't do because of your certification level. I think taking the time to explain to the little old lady in bed#3 the difference between CNA, NAC, PCA, LPN, RN and the housekeeper who also wears scrubs is pointless. A simple, concise, "I'm sorry ma'am, I can't to that for you but I can sure get someone who can." is going to be a lot more effective than a lecture on the varied levels of healthcare certification and licensure.

The third issue is the perception of the public that having an ambulance show up when they need one means that the government is sufficiently funding EMS in their community. This is a political issue and best left to those with political or activist leanings. We are a relatively new field and there are growing pains as we assert ourselves at the feeding trough of public funds. I wish more people would become active in the evolution of EMS in the public sector, but its a difficult, thankless job and I understand the reluctance of the majority to become involved.

 

[RescueShirts.com]

As a paramedic for the past 16 years... there is no "skin off my nose" if everyone in EMS was referred to (by the general public) as "medics".

Sure beats "ambulance driver". (When nurses call me this, I point out that they are not "bed pan attendants"... althoug that is part of their job... just like me driving the ambulance occasionally.)

Why do people jump to the conclusion that "Medic" is a short version of Paramedic...

After all... it also occurs in Emergency Medical Technician.

 

[Guardian]

There are several different topics here. One is someone deliberately misrepresenting themselves as having a higher medical credential than they actually possess.

The second is the misconception among members of the public regarding the various levels of certification which means pretty much nothing to them.

This is all one issue, not different topics. It's all connected. I won't beat the dead horse but I would encourage new members to go back and read this entire thread. I originally brought this issue to light and explained in detail how important this is on several fronts. If you can get past the pompous, know-it-all style of my posts, you will find some darn good points that make sense.