Ambulance Driver = EMT = Medic

...

Oh, as far as associating medic with physician; that is my personal account. As far as how things are done with LifeFlight; they are referred to as "Flight Physicians".

Here is a small explanation of why I associate medic with physician


From Dictionary.com
----------------------------------------------
Para - Subsidiary; assistant:

medic -
1. A member of a military medical corps.
2. A physician or surgeon.
3. A medical student or intern.

Paramedic - Assistant to a Medic;
 
I think that EMS has too many certification levels. This may offend MFR's and Intermediates, but I think there should just be the EMT-B and Paramedic. I also think EMT should be removed from the EMT-P title. It's not hard for a MFR to become an EMT-B, and intermediates could get paramedic training. It's too hard for the public to remember more than 2 terms, imho. We should continue to educate the public. It would be much easier to teach the public two terms anyways. We don't need to dumb down the way we identify ourselves to the public. We are looking for a general term to describe ourselves, when we should be re-thinking our education.

To a somewhat healthy patient.

"Hi, I'm Joe and I'm an EMT this is my partner, Tom. He's a Paramedic."

Pt: "What's the difference?
Me: "He has more training than I do."

To an emergent patient

Me the EMT-B: "Hi, my name is Joe, I'm here to help you."
Tom, my imaginary paramedic partner: "Hi, my name is Tom. I'm here to help you."

To the bystanders of an emergenct scene
Me: Hi, I'm Joe. I'm an EMT"
Them: "huh?"
Me: "I have training in emergency care, now get outta my way!"


EMT-B does not take that long, and is only about 70 hours longer than a MFR course. With no intermediate level, those who want to be a paramedic would really have to dedicate themselves.

How hard is it gonna be after 10 years and over a million emergencies, for the public to recognize two terms. I know this will take time. People at my restaurant job still think I am training to be an ambulance driver for God's sake. I just think I confused them explaining all the different levels and they revert to calling what I am studying "ambulance driver."

I am new to EMS, and this is just my opinion. Maybe it's too radical. Take it or leave it.
 
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Before you, or anyone/everyone, goes out on a rampage to make sure that everyone knows the difference between Basic/Inter/Medic, ask yourself why are you doing it?

Is it because your friends/co-workers think you're going to be an ambulance driver? Or is it because you want to change how your local communities get emergency medical treatment?

There are a few on here that want everyone to know the difference because they put themselves through the extra training and they want to be recognized for it. Most don't. But you have to remember the patient. They know when the white box with flashing lights is there it's because they are going to help them.

If I was a commander in the field I would never want my guys saying what their title was, or to give doubt to the patient that one has more training than the other. That's not for the patient to know/decide. It's up to the team on the rig to make the decision on who is going to care for the patient.
 
Hey, when I turn up on scene I usually introduce myself from the fire depatment as everyone knows who they are, and there are no questions. Shame, as I would think (before getting into this EMT thing)what has putting water on hot stuff to do with my chest pains.........
 
Well I'd like them to differentiate, but better to have everyone called "medics" than everyone called "ambulance drivers."
 
The next time you don't think it matters, the next time a patient calls a female physician ... nurse, see what the response is.

Patients legally are supposed to know the level and whom is working on them. It does matter more than one realizes, especially if there is potential trouble afterwards.

Most of the time, I introduce myself as my name then title both RN and Paramedic, the reason is for some more at ease talking on a personal issue on some things. I as well find a more receptive attention from ER staff, and attitude changes in nursing home staff.

R/r 911
 
Ridryder911 said:
Patients legally are supposed to know the level and whom is working on them. It does matter more than one realizes, especially if there is potential trouble afterwards.

R/r 911
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Is there a quiz later the patients can take to make sure they have the titles right? Multiple choice or matching?

Yes, identifying yourself with name and title is fundamental and required as part of the patient care process. But, healthcare is complicated enough for the elderly, sick and confused without making them responsible for getting all of our titles correct. Yes, I correct them when appropriate. But, to make an issue holding the public responsible for knowing the difference in our job descriptions shows a pettiness amongst ourselves that negates the good work we do. The typical patient will see an average of 20 different healthcare providers during their first 12 hours after calling an ambulance. Should the patient be given a pen and paper to take notes or offered a daily summary to keep the players staight?

Multiple titles are nice. But, what is the "legal" title you are working under at that moment in time for that employer and medical director?

Most female doctors are secure enough in their profession to laugh off or politelly correct the "nurse" thing because it does happen frequently. Likewise, male nurses have to handle at their stereotypes. As far as fire service paramedics, the public may see them in turnout gear one AND carrying stethoscope. Confusing? Every geographical area and municipal service may have a different job description and hat for people with similar titles to wear.

I'm sure there are alot of professions out there that would like to be called and acknowledged appropriately. Almost every health care profession has entry level, intermediate level and advanced levels of training/education and titles. However, it is rare that they spend time talking about what the public thinks of them. Usually they are concerned for issues that affect them as a whole or the patient. Healthcare is about the patient. Issues of egos concerning titles show more of a selfishness for one's self then concern for the job to be done or the patient.
 
Just to put in my $0.02, I think that it is important to clarify the differences in levels as well. But I think everyone should also be given respect and have respect for all the levels.

One thing I didn't see, is the mention of EMS as a blanket term. O/A some of you are saying that EMT causes confusion. However, I never announce myself as a paramedic because it sounds funny. I prefer to announce myself and crew as "EMS" when I come on scene. I think almost everyone knows that means EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES, implying various levels.

If someone were to want clarification from that, I would say, "I am a PCP" but I don't feel the need to have a trumpet guy blow his horn and shout this to everyone. Thus it is my opinion that a good blanket term for everyone should be "EMS". Beats ambulance or whatever else. And you can keep your titles this way too.

Anyone see a problem with that?

That being said, this should apply to outside agencies too. Mine Rescue Services or any job site medical providers (as they are starting to be licensed) should have their own designation as well. For example, a PCP working for an oil company should be something like OMP (Occupation Medical Providers) and then his/her level of PCP. This just being an example.

Anyone working in an oil field rig shouldn't be upset because they aren't designated as EMS despite having graduated from the same schools. If you want to be designated as EMS, then you should be working for EMS. Same to be said of OFA/FR/EMT/paramedics. I think it is fair to have distinction between the titles because after you've attained the next level, you deserve the credit for what you have earned. And you should be proud of what you have.

I worked with a civilian stretcher service for about 6 months and the employees were first aiders only. Many of them had stories where they found themselves in a first aid situation and they would introduce themselves as paramedics. I found that to be very inappropriate. What if this person was in need of real medical attention and being misled by their approach put themselves into their care? They aren't qualified to understand how serious the person's condition may be (pretend in this instance that it is a medical call) and they may delay this person from seeking help from proper channels. It isn't hard to visualize this sort of problem.

I'd like to say that I am a doctor, but I am not. But that doesn't matter to me since I am very proud of my level and all that I have achieved. And when I want more, I will go on and earn more with more education and training.

In conclusion, a blanket term should just be "EMS" for the public to use; let them learn about the levels on their own time. Outside care agencies should find their own blanket terms so as to maintain their own image. And levels aren't a bad thing, people should have more pride in what they are.
 
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that was a mouthful! I only wanted to suggest that EMS is all we need. We just need to start using it more often.

There are Police Services, Fire & Rescue Services, and we are Emergency Medical Services. If the news agencies were to report on us using EMS instead of titles, things would be easier.

"Two vehicles were involved in a collision today. Police, Fire and EMS worked to secure the scene and help the survivors." Notice that there is no need to identify EMT-Bs from Paramedics? Nobody needs to know that one of the cops was a Lieutenant and the others a Sheriff and two constables or whatever. They just say police and that works.

We've been EMS for a long time, so why do we need to change that? Trying to do so just shows that we need to get our act together and start working more professionally. Only unprofessional people squabble endlessly about the importance of their titles, if you've ever noticed.
 
Personally, it does not matter what they call me as long as it is not profanity, then yet I have been called worse. Vent I am sure after being a health care worker for sometime your comfortable, yet I am sure you would be the first to correct someone that you were not housekeeping if your were confused to be one.

No, there is not a test, but many hospitals have attempted to reduce confusion. Especially since nearly everyone wears scrubs. I know of several that has placards in the patient rooms identifying color of scrubs to match license level or identification... i.e nurse tech, RN, other allied health care. Yes, there are now patients that are becoming more alert on whom and what are taking care of them. I have had patients ask not to be treated by certain levels of caregivers.

Yes, most female physicians are comfortable, because they have learned to be so, but I have as of yet have not seen them immediately correct the patient quickly and reinforce their title in discussion, in contrast where many male physicians prefer to be called by their first name. In which, I don't blame them. Yes, as a male I am assumed to be the physician, most of the time. I do correct them and usually after the tenth time finally get tired of doing so. Similar to P.A.'s situation, no matter how many times they attempt to correct the situation.

In my state, I am legally bound to have my RN title displayed, no matter what department, be it psych, ER, critical care transport, etc. They take that real seriously, much more than in EMS where anything goes.

Nurses take their title and professional image serious. Maybe if EMS would do so, our titles would be more recognizable (as long as we keep the number down). For discussion : http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2668327

R/r 911
 
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I like the EMS idea. That video was just so.......lame......

Sorry, it just sounded stupid, and I felt embarassed after I watched it. TKO makes a good point. Saying, "EMS," is both informative, true, and not confusing at all.
 
TKO said:
We've been EMS for a long time, so why do we need to change that? Trying to do so just shows that we need to get our act together and start working more professionally. Only unprofessional people squabble endlessly about the importance of their titles, if you've ever noticed.
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Now that was well stated!

And yes Rid, in the hospital I have been called a housekeeper, though I prefer environmental technician, when mopping up after one of my machines. I am also called a "dietary aide"(prefer food services technician) when I bring my patients their coffee while serving up a nebulizer just before they go out for their morning cigarette. Of course, if I didn't correct the patients on my real title and that I am not an environmental or food service technician, I would be doing these two professions a disservice. :)
 
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Here are some facts to get us back on track. People know the difference between housekeeping and RT. People know the difference between RN and LPN. People do not know the difference between EMT and Paramedic. Is it really to hard to learn the difference between these two?…well, it is now with all the wannabe paramedics (emt-abcdefg) but as soon as we do away with them it won’t be. People should be aware of the services provided to them. Sure, not every senile old fart will know the difference, but most people should. If you want respect and you want your profession to grow, your capabilities should be clearly defined and understood by your patients.

I think the idea of people actually knowing what they're getting scares the heck out of some people on this forum. Am I right about this? Are you afraid the public might demand more if they knew the difference in education and capabilities?
 
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Let's look at this from a patient's perspective. First, this is pre-hospital and an emergency situation. Usually, people see EMS every day on the streets so they know it's there. They've seen enough TV to know about some of our on scene heroics. However, most people don't study up on medical terminology prior to an accident or heart attack. If someone has just had a major accident, many other things are going through their mind; loved ones, pain, panic, disability, unemployment, car totaled, loss of income, financial distress, lawsuit etc. They just want to know someone is there to help. They don't want your resume or a long speech about how many more skills you can do than the other people arouond you. Most people hope never to need defibrillating or any other type of emergency service on the street. They hope you are qualified enough to keep them alive to get them to a hospital. You could have the longest title at scene behind your name, but may not be able to gain the confidence of the patient in your care. Identifying yourself, your title (or as part of the EMS team) and that you are there for THEM should be a good start to the short and fast-paced time you will have with them. The quality conversation should be about the patient. Maybe if people had time they might study up on the EMS services around them and try to have an accident only in areas with "certain" EMS providers.

Most people don't even know how many different specialties there are among doctors...until they need one.

The patient may remember you every time they see an ambulance. They may not remember your name or title. They may just remember a caring professional who helped them when they needed it.
 
VentMedic said:
Let's look at this from a patient's perspective. First, this is pre-hospital and an emergency situation. Usually, people see EMS every day on the streets so they know it's there. They've seen enough TV to know about some of our on scene heroics. However, most people don't study up on medical terminology prior to an accident or heart attack. If someone has just had a major accident, many other things are going through their mind; loved ones, pain, panic, disability, unemployment, car totaled, loss of income, financial distress, lawsuit etc. They just want to know someone is there to help. They don't want your resume or a long speech about how many more skills you can do than the other people arouond you. Most people hope never to need defibrillating or any other type of emergency service on the street. They hope you are qualified enough to keep them alive to get them to a hospital. You could have the longest title at scene behind your name, but may not be able to gain the confidence of the patient in your care. Identifying yourself, your title (or as part of the EMS team) and that you are there for THEM should be a good start to the short and fast-paced time you will have with them. The quality conversation should be about the patient. Maybe if people had time they might study up on the EMS services around them and try to have an accident only in areas with "certain" EMS providers.

Most people don't even know how many different specialties there are among doctors...until they need one.

The patient may remember you every time they see an ambulance. They may not remember your name or title. They may just remember a caring professional who helped them when they needed it.
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I'm not sure what any of this has to do with my post and maybe it doesn't. I do have some questions for you though; do you think people should know the difference between a BLS staffed ambulance and an ALS ambulance? Do you think people should have any say over the type of care they receive? Don't jump right to a heart pounding emergency scene, that has no relevance here. Instead, consider beforehand when people as a whole are deciding what type of 911 system to put into place. Also, do you think they would use more LPNs instead of RNs in emergency departments if people didn't know the difference? I think so. I think it's important to educate the people so they know what they're getting when they call 911. It appears you disagree with me, am I wrong?
 
Why do you hate all EMT-B's so much? It sounds like you have a reasonably justified argument against the B's in your area, but you have to know there are better than that elsewhere. Or does this bother you because you were an ineffective, incompetent B and now that you feel akin to nurses and doctors that you wish to distance yourself from that past?

Whether you like it or not, you are EMS and not ER. You should embrace the B's who work around you and either help them to improve or, failing that, take action to get their sh*t sorted out. We are all doing the best that we can with what we have. You definitely shouldn't blame B's for the limitations of their license.

And you have your distinction on-scene: you are ALS and the B's are BLS. You can charge in there and take control of the scene, and the patients can see the redirection of power. And I'm sorry to say it, but they all see it going straight to your head and probably think you are a braying jackass.

If you re-read your posts, you can see that you refer to nearly everyone, including the patients you rally for, nasty condescending names. IF that is not your intention, you should apologize for that. Otherwise, you should realize that studying pre-med doesn't make you better than the rest of us in EMS.
 
Guardian said:
I think it's important to educate the people so they know what they're getting when they call 911. It appears you disagree with me, am I wrong?
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I think I get what you are saying, but be aware that there isn't money enough to require everyone to be paramedics. Many communities require first responders or B's when available because ALS isn't available. If the general public knew that, they'd lose confidence in the system (which is a struggle for us to maintain as it is). Imagine if every dispatcher had callers demanding ALS? That's what would happen. I sure as hell want the highest level of care available for my loved ones and I respect and understand the system.

Besides, since when does public education ever accomplish anything? If you want the public to see your way you are going to need the help of a popular tv show. Create an accurate and edgy tv series about EMS and demonstrate the differences, and people will begin to understand. Make an informative brochure and people will throw it in the trash.
 
TKO...1) All of your perceptions of me are wrong. 2) You bring up an interesting point. Maybe we can't fund the huge salaries of paramedics (I'm laughing as I write this), it's not like we are the richest country in the world or anything. Maybe we shouldn't worry about the funding, this is what politicians are for. We should worry about giving people the best care possible and letting them decide what that is. And maybe losing confidence in our system is a good thing, then something would be done to improve it.
 
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I believe EMS has a lot of internal housekeeping chores before we put ourselves up for public scrutiny intentionally. If we can not form a respect for our own then how do you expect public approval? People do have a pretty high regard for EMS services as a whole. Some form of EMS makes headlines, both good and bad, almost everyday.

Many areas of the country have access to ALS EMS services. Many areas do not for reasons that are beyond their control. Their tax base and political machine may not support it. Making people feel like "have nots" is not the answer. Many people are very comfortable with their local BLS services. Sometimes technology is great. Sometimes it hinders. Sometimes an experienced Basic is better then an over confident (or not) and inexperienced (or experienced) Paramedic.

Yes, there are people who are medical needs patients who must choose to live by the services available. Most of us live where our heart and dreams take us. We all hope to stay healthy and accident free. Possibly, people might want state of art trauma systems with all ALS units. However, if you ever look at the voting outcomes for the taxes funding these systems in public election, you will find them to be very close.

Yes patients do want the most qualified person for the job. I believe in the team approach. That is why I liked TKO's posts. The EMS team is here for the patient. Everybody has a role.

Many hospital systems still view the LPN as a valued member of the healthcare team.
 
VentMedic said:
I believe EMS has a lot of internal housekeeping chores before we put ourselves up for public scrutiny intentionally.
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Ok, I'm glad you're honest enough to admit wanting to keep people in the dark about the services we provide. I don't agree with this at all but I'm glad we can now at least understand each others point of view better.
 
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