Ambulance Driver = EMT = Medic

[RebelRescue]

Ego's can be a good thing guys. Do you want some timid little MD preforming emergency surgery on you or do you want a larger than life cocky know it all who can back up what he/she says. Sure, too much of anything can be a bad thing but in the words of the great Dr. Phil, "lets get real." Farmer brown with emt-b training does not deserve to hold my title. People should not be lied too (ex. dispatcher telling someone that paramedics are on the way and having a couple of FR's show up). When an emergency MD steps into the trauma room in the ED, does he say "were all equals here, what do you think i should do?" or does he start giving orders. I know for a fact that my ego has saved lives..........................just something to think about

Every paramedic I've seen with an ego like yours had absolutely lousy patient rapport which,IMO,is very important in our field.

If you aren't getting any respect it's probably because your not giving any.

Just how much field experience have you had anyway?From the EDITED statements in your posts it sounds like your only experience is in the classroom and from watching tv.

Speaking of tv I think you may be having difficulty seperating fantasy from reality-get help............seriously.

 

[Firechic]

As far as the public is concerned, they can refer to me as a "medic" since as a whole they usually are not current with correct terminology (eg: how many people still call flight attendants "airline stewardesses"). As long as they know I am there to take care of them when they call.

you would see the obvious comparsion( RN is to MD as Emt-b is to Paramedic)

I don't where you got this from, but it's a wrong analogy. EMT-B and Paramedic are in the same field. RNs and MDs are two different animals all together.

RebelRescue asked a very good question regarding Guardian's experience. Normally, if you've been doing this job for some time, you can smell a rookie when one is around!

 

[Guardian]

Bio info: 5 years inner city paramedic in city thats always ranked in top ten for violent crime, 3 of which full time 48hrs/week, and the other 2 part time approx 15hrs/week running usually 6-10 calls per/12hrs.

I run a lot of B.S., but I also run some real ones(GSW,stabbing,Arrests.....), I now push narcan about 3 times a month and it usually works 2 out of the three times (and i did push a lot more working full time hours).

I not claiming to be an expert, but i'm not a rookie and I wrote the above to hopefully establish this fact, not to be belittled.

 

[Guardian]

As far as my pt rapport, where i work, it's critical to have good rapport. If not, theres a good chance somthing bad will happen (eg. killed by indig. pop.)

 

[Guardian]

As far a separating fantasy from reality, your right, i don't. Fantasy is usually idealistic and that's what I want the real world to be like. When it comes to ems, i'm usually try to be perfect even though i know i'll never reach perfection and the same applies to my views on life.............

 

[Guardian]

I really feel that most of you don't realize the importance of public perception of ems. Most of you want to go around helping people and expect nothing in return which can be a good thing. I on the other hand want something in return. I want to be looked up to as a professional hero, a man who comes to your aid in your darkest hour, a man who can be trusted with your life, a man who can get the job done no matter what the odds.........

This following is my KEY point, so please read very carefully. Ems has changed from its early days because of a change in public perception. Let me explain. Back in the days of Emergency(jonny and roy.....yes, I love tv and i don't care what you think), there were ambulance drivers and then there were these highly trained brave professionals called paramedics who would practice emergency medicine in the field. The show was a little cheesy but people liked it because its nice to think there are heros like jonny and roy there to serve you. Back in the early days, voly squads were poping up all over the place because everyone wanted to be a hero like jonny and roy and voly squads would pick and choose only the best applicants and you were expected to act like a professional. All the cool kids in high school wanted to be involved with ems. Things have changed over the years. Now voly squads are disappearing due to lack of applicants and only a few dorky kids in high school want to be ems providers.

So what has changed. The training has increased and we can do more now on standing orders than ever before so you would think ems would be more popular than ever, but it's not. What has changed is public perception. There is no interest in ems because we are nothing more than ambulance drivers again or at least were heading in that direction. Now time for some subjection: Paramedics are now grouped with emts and FRs who want to call themselves Medics. The paramedic came first. Then emts and other assorted FRs started popping up to cover rural areas who wanted something simular to what the "big cities" had.

Over the years, the public has had many run-ins with these well-meaning second rate paramedic want-to-bes. The few and proud concept is gone because now everyone who takes a short FR or EMT class, calls themselves Medics, which indicates they are highly trained professionals and/or just lets the public think that. The problem is, the public is smart. They see Bubba and they say to themselves, maybe these paramedics aren't as professional as I thought they were. The result is;1) expectations go down 2) good people persue other careers that demand more respect 3) wages go down because the public isn't willing to pay bubba very much money which keeps ems from being a career (need evidence? how about this: not very many older people{35y/o and up} involved in ems as a career) 4) instead of responding to real emergencies, we are bogged down with a lot of B.S. taxi runs for poor and stupid people because after all, the public views us as ambulance drivers 5) this process snowballs out of control and ems consists of nothing but bubbas.

Emts play a vital role in helping to cover rural areas and provide some type of medical care in places that would otherwise not recieve any and/or assist paramedics but they should not be looked upon by the public as our equals.

 

[Guardian]

More bio info if you still think i'm a rookie. Things i've done while on duty as a paramedic- I've been caught in cross fire before, someone tried to stab me and i had to break her wrist to get the knife away from her, I worked 3 cardiac arrests in one day(all were young with family there and bodies were warm, i had no choice but to work them), i've used the pedi IO 2 times, worked one pedi arrest and one pedi respiratory arrest, have been sexually assaulted (crazy female pts love to touch me in different areas and 350lb female psych pt tried to to rape me and it took 5 nurses to pull her off me)...............more to come

 

[Guardian]

People already don't know the difference between EMT and Paramedic. The only ones that do are the ones in the profession (MFRs, EMTs, Paramedics, and some doctors and nurses).

Most of the general public has no idea. All they know is that they called 911, an ambulance shows up on scene, they put the pt in the back of the ambulance and they go to the hospital. They know they pt is getting some kind of care on the way to the hospital but they don't know what. And all they really care about is that they get the best care possible.

They are not concerned with titles, and neither should you. It's the care that you are providing the patient that is most important. Anything else is just wasted air.

Public doesn't know difference? my point exactly, the only difference is i want the public to know there is a difference between paramedic and emt and apparently you don't because you want to call us both Medics, I think if you read my previous post, you might understand it's more than just wasted air.

 

[Guardian]

Guardian, your "passion" in this issue is that :censored by Chimpie: and like someone else mentioned, your source of anger is YOUR issue. Yes, you're ego --- you keep suggesting that every EMT is a redneck, bear drinking bubba.... but I bet back you you were an EMT B you'd be asking for more respect, and you certainly wouldn't appreciate a Paramedic down talking you.
Someone who is an EMT-B can certainly be as dedicated at their profession, at saving lives. Just because you've gotten extra training doesn't make you "better" than that other person. Sure, you've got a higher scope of practice, way more in-depth knowledge of the human body and how to keep it living... but doesn't make you a better person.
Pride is useful for putting oneself on a pedestal, if that's what you want - If you feel that you need to cushion yourself from your peers of lower training. It will easily set you up for dissapointment later on, once you start to drive potential friends away.
Pull your head out, take a deep breath, and ask yourself:
"What goals and values might I share with an EMT? Why I am in EMS? Why is that EMT-B in EMS? Does it make sense for me to look down on them?"

You know, i'm actually a pretty low key kind of a guy but i must come across as angry on the computer.

I liked it when paramedics talked down to me (not in a mean way but in an authoritative "i know more than you" way) when i was an emt because it gave me something to aspire to be.

 

[Guardian]

What Chimpie has said above was going to be pretty much my point in response to Post #48 above: To the patient, it doesn't matter if we're an EMT-B or -I or -P. They just want to be helped.

Imagine this little scenario: Patient is on the ground for whatever reason, 911 has been called, an ambulance shows up with an EMT-B and a Paramedic. They walk up to the patient. One says, "Hi, I'm JJR512, I'm an EMT," the other says, "Hi, I'm Guardian, I'm a Paramedic." The patient looks at both and says, "Are you here to help me?" Both say yes. The patient smiles.

Get it?

We all already have several common titles. We're all EMTs at one level or another. We're all pre-hospital emergency medical providers. But it's not really that easy or expedient to walk up to a patient and say, "Hi, I'm Justin, I'm a pre-hospital emergency medical provider with the Anne Arundel County Fire Department."

For the record, I am not yet decided one way or the other on the use of "medic". I agree with many people here that it may be the best simple term to use for pre-hospital providers. However, in my (admittedly short, and only as a student) experience so far, nobody has been confused by the term EMT. Everyone I have talked to knows that EMT = pre-hospital emergency medical provider. They also know that Paramedic = pre-hospital emergency medical provider. I don't know if they know the difference between EMT and
Paramedic or not, but once again, to the patient, it doesn't matter if they know what the difference is or even if there is a difference.

The only people that difference really matters to are the people who train, certify, supervise, work with, and pay (if applicable, as many are volunteers) you.

I think i showed in recent posts (today) that it does matter that more than just surpervisors and so-on know the difference

 

[Guardian]

As far as the public is concerned, they can refer to me as a "medic" since as a whole they usually are not current with correct terminology (eg: how many people still call flight attendants "airline stewardesses"). As long as they know I am there to take care of them when they call.



I don't where you got this from, but it's a wrong analogy. EMT-B and Paramedic are in the same field. RNs and MDs are two different animals all together.

RebelRescue asked a very good question regarding Guardian's experience. Normally, if you've been doing this job for some time, you can smell a rookie when one is around!

same field, different field, NOT THE POINT, the point is less training to more training because for the most part, when you strip away everything, RNs are trained to a much lesser degree in MEDICINE than doctors in MEDICINE which is the primary similarity used in my argument. Its not a great analogy but it does the job.

 

[RebelRescue]

You are trying to marginalize all those basics and first responders out there who have saved THOUSANDS of lives on their own with NO help from a paragod like yourself(myself included both as a FR and a Basic) and that's just not right.You don't want anything taken from you so how about not taking anything away from people who also play a vital role in ems,whether that be in a urban or rural area?

Are there dumba** basics and FRs who ain't worth a dam and make the field as a whole look bad?Yep sure are...........and probably just as many paramedics too.Those types are found in any profession or,for that matter,any work place(and yes I am counting MDs in there).

As for this hero business........well I have been called one on many occasions and quite frankly it made turn red and say "gosh I was just doing my job" or some such idiotic statement.From now on thou I'll be sure to tell anyone who stupidly calls me that "no sorry you must have me confused with those gods among men we call paramedics,I'm just a lowly ***-scratching no-nothing red-neck basic and don't have the credentials to be a hero."

 

[ffemt8978]

Guardian, so far, the only thing you've proved is that you believe there should be a clarification between the various levels of EMT's when dealing with the public.

Take the state where I live for example. Here, we have the following levels of EMT's:

First Responder
EMT-Basic
EMT-IV
EMT-Airway
EMT-IV/Airway
EMT-ILS
EMT-ILS/Airway
EMT-Paramedic

Gets to be quite a mouthful when you're trying to introduce yourself to the patient. I have no problem with paramedics introducing themselves as paramedics, but I shouldn't have to spend 5 minutes explaining my certification level to my patient because to satisfy your ego on monopolizing the term "medic".

From http://www.webster.com:

The definition of "medic":

medic

2 entries found for medic.
To select an entry, click on it. medic[1,noun] medic[2,noun] Main Entry: 2medic
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin medicus
: one engaged in medical work or study; especially : [SIZE=-1]CORPSMAN[[/SIZE]

Now the definition of "paramedic"

paramedic

2 entries found for paramedic.
To select an entry, click on it. paramedic paramedical Main Entry: para·med·ic
Pronunciation: "par-&-'me-dik
Variant(s): also para·med·i·cal /-di-k&l/
Function: noun
1 : a person who works in a health field in an auxiliary capacity to a physician (as by giving injections and taking X rays)
2 : a specially trained medical technician licensed to provide a wide range of emergency services (as defibrillation and the intravenous administration of drugs) before or during transportation to a hospital -- compare [SIZE=-1]EMT[/SIZE]

So, according to Webster's, we're all medics because we're all engaged in "medical work or study". Any questions?

 

[Guardian]

Guardian, your "passion" in this issue is that :censored by Chimpie: and like someone else mentioned, your source of anger is YOUR issue. Yes, you're ego --- you keep suggesting that every EMT is a redneck, bear drinking bubba.... but I bet back you you were an EMT B you'd be asking for more respect, and you certainly wouldn't appreciate a Paramedic down talking you.
Someone who is an EMT-B can certainly be as dedicated at their profession, at saving lives. Just because you've gotten extra training doesn't make you "better" than that other person. Sure, you've got a higher scope of practice, way more in-depth knowledge of the human body and how to keep it living... but doesn't make you a better person.
Pride is useful for putting oneself on a pedestal, if that's what you want - If you feel that you need to cushion yourself from your peers of lower training. It will easily set you up for dissapointment later on, once you start to drive potential friends away.
Pull your head out, take a deep breath, and ask yourself:
"What goals and values might I share with an EMT? Why I am in EMS? Why is that EMT-B in EMS? Does it make sense for me to look down on them?"

I dont mean to suggest that EVERY emt is a redneck bubba, i don' t write nor speak nor think in absolutes (exception, my last comment). I simply suggested that a disturbingly large number of emts and FRs are bubbas

My extra training does in fact make me a better provider in my ever humble opinion and my point is that in GENERAL, paramedics are a higher class of people (my not so humble opinion).........i should specify what i mean by "class" of people.............class equals better family upbringing, better adapted socially, and more education, summarily a better person and citizen in general.

where i am from, USUALLY people at the top of the social ladder have more friends than anyone else and also where i'm from, being on a pedestal draws a lot of attention and does not isolate.

 

[Guardian]

Guardian, so far, the only thing you've proved is that you believe there should be a clarification between the various levels of EMT's when dealing with the public.

Take the state where I live for example. Here, we have the following levels of EMT's:

First Responder
EMT-Basic
EMT-IV
EMT-Airway
EMT-IV/Airway
EMT-ILS
EMT-ILS/Airway
EMT-Paramedic

Gets to be quite a mouthful when you're trying to introduce yourself to the patient. I have no problem with paramedics introducing themselves as paramedics, but I shouldn't have to spend 5 minutes explaining my certification level to my patient because to satisfy your ego on monopolizing the term "medic".

From http://www.webster.com:

The definition of "medic":

Now the definition of "paramedic"

So, according to Webster's, we're all medics because we're all engaged in "medical work or study". Any questions?

Ok, now it's time to move on to another issue, which is what to do about all the different levels. This is a real problem that has no easy answer but off hand, this is what i think; either you are a fully trained professional paramedic or you are a partially trained EMT. That narrows the field to 2. "Hi, i'm an emt" tells public that your a partially trained better than nothing provider that will have to suffice in a pinch. "hi, i'm a paramedic" tells the public that your a fully trained professional. NREMT in all their infinite wisdom started giving paramedics the name emt-paramedics. I say get rid of the emt part. Jonny and roy were never called emt-paramedics were they?

 

[Guardian]

You are trying to marginalize all those basics and first responders out there who have saved THOUSANDS of lives on their own with NO help from a paragod like yourself(myself included both as a FR and a Basic) and that's just not right.You don't want anything taken from you so how about not taking anything away from people who also play a vital role in ems,whether that be in a urban or rural area?

Are there dumba** basics and FRs who ain't worth a dam and make the field as a whole look bad?Yep sure are...........and probably just as many paramedics too.Those types are found in any profession or,for that matter,any work place(and yes I am counting MDs in there).

As for this hero business........well I have been called one on many occasions and quite frankly it made turn red and say "gosh I was just doing my job" or some such idiotic statement.From now on thou I'll be sure to tell anyone who stupidly calls me that "no sorry you must have me confused with those gods among men we call paramedics,I'm just a lowly ***-scratching no-nothing red-neck basic and don't have the credentials to be a hero."

No, you are trying to increase the credibility of emts and FRs by comparing them to paramedics. Simular situation, only at your level; what if they started calling people who are trained only in bed pan changing EMT-BPC (bed pan changers), and then to make matters worse they went around calling themselves EMTs. How would you feel? Sure, EMT-BPCs help people in a time of need and have intense jobs, but should they really have your title of EMT, I think not and the same is true for emt vs paramedic.

true, there are always going to be dumb people in every profession, what we have to do is minimalize the dumb people

hero business, not to sound cocky but we are in the hero business because we are here to go above and beyond to save lives. I don't go around calling myself a hero, there are a lot of different forms of heros, but we are in the hero business, make no mistake about that (they don't allow us to break all the traffic laws for nothing).

 

[Chimpie]

Public doesn't know difference? my point exactly, the only difference is i want the public to know there is a difference between paramedic and emt and apparently you don't because you want to call us both Medics, I think if you read my previous post, you might understand it's more than just wasted air.

But my point is that they don't care what your title is. They just want to know that you're there to help and to get them to the hospital alive.

It's not like they are going to be there, laying in a car, bleeding out of every hole in their body, look at the patch on the shoulder and say, "Go away, you're just an EMT."

 

[Chimpie]

Bio info: 5 years inner city paramedic in city thats always ranked in top ten for violent crime, 3 of which full time 48hrs/week, and the other 2 part time approx 15hrs/week running usually 6-10 calls per/12hrs.

So you've been a paramedic for 5 years? How long were you an EMT before that?

 

[Jon]

Ok, now it's time to move on to another issue, which is what to do about all the different levels. This is a real problem that has no easy answer but off hand, this is what i think; either you are a fully trained professional paramedic or you are a partially trained EMT. That narrows the field to 2. "Hi, i'm an emt" tells public that your a partially trained better than nothing provider that will have to suffice in a pinch. "hi, i'm a paramedic" tells the public that your a fully trained professional. NREMT in all their infinite wisdom started giving paramedics the name emt-paramedics. I say get rid of the emt part. Jonny and roy were never called emt-paramedics were they?

What makes someone a "Fully-Trained Paramedic" Vs. a "Partially Trained EMT"

I've seen folks with NREMT-P patches who didn't seem able to wipe their own bottoms, and I've seen EMT-B's that are more knowledgeble than their "Paramedic" partner.

As I've said... In Israel - Drivers with Basic First Aid are "Medics" and those with a similar course to the national standard EMT-P course are "Paramedics" That is their system.

In Canada, everone is a "Paramedic"

 

[Jon]

Public doesn't know difference? my point exactly, the only difference is i want the public to know there is a difference between paramedic and emt and apparently you don't because you want to call us both Medics, I think if you read my previous post, you might understand it's more than just wasted air.

Why does it matter that the public "know there is a difference?" YOU admitted that they can't tell the difference between a FF, CFR, EMT-B, EMT-I, EMT-P

In my experience, the only way they notice the difference between an EMT and a EMT-P is "why is his uniform different?" And that only works when you have distinctly different uniforms.