Federal officers delayed, threatened to ‘shoot and arrest’ ambulance crew at Portland ICE facility, report says

[RocketMedic]

Given that these same ICE officers are doing fairly targeted, needlessly-brutal things like shooting clergymen in the head with pepper ball guns while they pray and filling an inflatable costume with pepper spray, and that they seem to have the training and discipline of man-children on tantrums at an apathetic summer camp, I’m inclined to believe that they would indeed make vague threats to an ambulance crew.

 

[ffemt8978]

Given that these same ICE officers are doing fairly targeted, needlessly-brutal things like shooting clergymen in the head with pepper ball guns while they pray and filling an inflatable costume with pepper spray, and that they seem to have the training and discipline of man-children on tantrums at an apathetic summer camp, I’m inclined to believe that they would indeed make vague threats to an ambulance crew.

That's like saying given how many Portlamd residents have attacked federal agents during protests, you could also see the crew intentionally trying to run over the federal agents. Please try not to let your political biases prevent you from treating each case based upon the individual facts.

 

[CCCSD]

Given that these same ICE officers are doing fairly targeted, needlessly-brutal things like shooting clergymen in the head with pepper ball guns while they pray and filling an inflatable costume with pepper spray, and that they seem to have the training and discipline of man-children on tantrums at an apathetic summer camp, I’m inclined to believe that they would indeed make vague threats to an ambulance crew.

Yeah…. You used to be a good source in your posts.

Now you are just a biased anti LE poster joining the ranks of ACAB. Try learning the facts of EACH situation instead of painting everyone. Your California LeftWaffe roots are showing.

 

[Jim37F]

What I can see is right leaning people fully believe every protestor is some violent antifa terrorist who totally deserves getting slammed to the ground and every left leaning poster on the side that every ICE agent is just a masked Proud Boy shooting peaceful protesters in the face...

There's absolutely videos of Officers shooting pepperballs point blank range at people who aren't being violent, and cars generally dont spontaneously catch on fire if someone isn't being violent at a protest, so I think everyone can take a dang chill pill on the us vs them politics as some protesters are being too violent and some of the Officers are also being way to violent themselves

 

[FiremanMike]

What I can see is right leaning people fully believe every protestor is some violent antifa terrorist who totally deserves getting slammed to the ground and every left leaning poster on the side that every ICE agent is just a masked Proud Boy shooting peaceful protesters in the face...

There's absolutely videos of Officers shooting pepperballs point blank range at people who aren't being violent, and cars generally dont spontaneously catch on fire if someone isn't being violent at a protest, so I think everyone can take a dang chill pill on the us vs them politics as some protesters are being too violent and some of the Officers are also being way to violent themselves

The only “us vs them” is the “us” who’ve put on a badge and gun and spent a good bit of time studying use of force incidents and being personally involved in use of force, only to find that what’s reported by the masses and fueled by the media is either far different from reality and/or snippets of time taken without context.

Those of “us” typically want to hear more of the story before we pass judgement..

 

[CCCSD]

What I can see is right leaning people fully believe every protestor is some violent antifa terrorist who totally deserves getting slammed to the ground and every left leaning poster on the side that every ICE agent is just a masked Proud Boy shooting peaceful protesters in the face...

There's absolutely videos of Officers shooting pepperballs point blank range at people who aren't being violent, and cars generally dont spontaneously catch on fire if someone isn't being violent at a protest, so I think everyone can take a dang chill pill on the us vs them politics as some protesters are being too violent and some of the Officers are also being way to violent themselves

See? You just leapt to the assumption stage without facts.
I’m also betting you haven’t been in these situations, which is lucky for you.

Here’s a question: The “peaceful” protestor who got in his U-Haul truck, reversed it, and backed at speed at the gate to a Military facility. Was the shooting just a bunch of guys being “way too violent” or were they acting appropriately?

You have .05 seconds to decide. There is a 50/50 chance you are going to die.

 

[FiremanMike]

You have .05 seconds to decide. There is a 50/50 chance you are going to die.

THIS

I really enjoy when they put reporters or community activists through those use of force simulators, it always opens their eyes.

Everyone hears about adrenaline dump, auditory shutdown, subconscious decision making, loss of fine motor skills, etc, but you don’t actually know what that’s like until you experience it.

 

[DrParasite]

Given that these same ICE officers are doing fairly targeted, needlessly-brutal things [snip] filling an inflatable costume with pepper spray, and that they seem to have the training and discipline of man-children on tantrums at an apathetic summer camp, I’m inclined to believe that they would indeed make vague threats to an ambulance crew.

honest question: a person in an inflatable costume is not following lawful commands, and is wearing a costume to prevent him from being affected by the non-lethal crowd control measures... why should the ICE officer not do something to ensure that the person violating the law is affected by the non-lethal riot control measure?

 

[DrParasite]

THIS

I really enjoy when they put reporters or community activists through those use of force simulators, it always opens their eyes.

Everyone hears about adrenaline dump, auditory shutdown, subconscious decision making, loss of fine motor skills, etc, but you don’t actually know what that’s like until you experience it.

It's always eye-opening when they do it (and put share it with the public), because hindsight is 20/20, and it's very easy to criticize when you aren't in the cop's shoes.

The only “us vs them” is the “us” who’ve put on a badge and gun and spent a good bit of time studying use of force incidents and being personally involved in use of force,

I've never put on a badge and gun, but that doesn't negate my decades of experience working in EMS... and working alongside law enforcement in multiple states. It's not us vs them, however, if you don't think this situation could happen as the EMS provider described it, then I think you are fooling yourself. I will openly say that I give most cops the benefit of the doubt (before all of the facts are known), because they do a job that I could never do... however, in this case, I can see a high stress situation being escalated due no malicious intent on the side of the EMS professional, and the ICE officer inferring malicious intent when none existed. And yes, the political climate in Portland isn't helping the situation one bit.

 

[mgr22]

During my time in EMS, "us" didn't exclude LE. There was mutual respect and various risks taken to support each other.

I get the frustration over perceived rush to judgement. There's plenty of that going around. You don't have to be an LEO to feel that way.

 

[FiremanMike]

During my time in EMS, "us" didn't exclude LE. There was mutual respect and various risks taken to support each other.

I get the frustration over perceived rush to judgement. There's plenty of that going around. You don't have to be an LEO to feel that way.

That's fair.

The "us" refers to those with a badge and a gun or those with fire or EMS experience that mirrors the law enforcement experience where the narrative didn't match the reality. Generally those medics have good relationships with their local PD and have "been in the sh*t" with them.

The "them" refers to those who've either forgotten where they came from, lived a very cush 911 job, or stuck to private interfacility or hospital based care.

That said, the adrenaline dump for medics DOES NOT, IN ANY WAY match that of a cop facing a use of force situation. I can fully attest to that. I worked a ghetto PD for a year after having 10 years in a ghetto fire department and the stress of being a cop isn't even in the same stratosphere.

 

[mgr22]

That said, the adrenaline dump for medics DOES NOT, IN ANY WAY match that of a cop facing a use of force situation. I can fully attest to that. I worked a ghetto PD for a year after having 10 years in a ghetto fire department and the stress of being a cop isn't even in the same stratosphere.

I wouldn't know how your experiences compare to mine. But I respect what you've done and appreciate your willingness to do it.

 

[RocketMedic]

honest question: a person in an inflatable costume is not following lawful commands, and is wearing a costume to prevent him from being affected by the non-lethal crowd control measures... why should the ICE officer not do something to ensure that the person violating the law is affected by the non-lethal riot control measure?

Why is ICE, a federal immigration-enforcement organization, sortieing out onto public property to assault a peacefully-protesting American citizen who is in no meaningful way disruptive of their operations?

Why is CBP chief Gregory Bovino on video tossing CS gas canisters into a crowd of peaceful protesters on a city street, despite a federal court injunction against doing exactly that?

Why are American citizens being disappeared for days by LEOs who have no authority to arrest them, because they are only empowered to enforce immigration law against non-citizens? (George Retes, SoCal)

Why are ICE officers doing things like explosive breaches in SWAT raids on the homes of American citizens? Super-great intelligence on those…but it’s OK because Kristi Noem is in attendance.

For that matter, where’s the training and professionalism? I’m 110% certain that most of the LEOs out there are looking at ICE’s behavior and know it wouldn’t be acceptable.

 

[RocketMedic]

I don’t want to get banned or get the thread locked, but I will say this: there’s a reason they’re covering their faces and trying to be relatively anonymous, and it ain’t doxxing. They are attempting to avoid future accountability for their behavior, and I would not be at all surprised to learn in the future that record-keeping was “poor” or “deficient” and that they don’t really know who did what to whom.

These people appear to be grossly unprofessional, untrained and are clearly operating in an environment where what oversight they do have is focused on metrics other than polite, professional, respectful conduct. That’s not to say that immigration enforcement is a clean or easy business, but I don’t think even the most pro-ICE posters here can make a solid argument that ICE and hangers-on isn’t actively trolling American society either.

Bookmark this for 2027 and beyond…

There have been excesses and likely criminal violations, there will be more and worse before accountability is forcibly installed. Eventually, there will be investigations and criminal charges, and the lawsuits are going to be expensive, painful and deeply expository of a culture and command structure that is deeply offensive to human rights, American law and the well-being of citizens and people in general; this is going to do immense damage to the institution of law enforcement on every level that will take generations to even begin to repair. Joe Friday, Pete Malloy and Jim Reed are long, long, long gone and it will be very difficult to convince anyone that LE at any level can be trusted, no matter how many Live PD “saves” get broadcast.

And we, in EMS and Fire, are going to get the wake of that loss of trust, because most people are silly and can’t differentiate well between us.

 

[FiremanMike]

I don’t want to get banned or get the thread locked, but I will say this: there’s a reason they’re covering their faces and trying to be relatively anonymous, and it ain’t doxxing. They are attempting to avoid future accountability for their behavior, and I would not be at all surprised to learn in the future that record-keeping was “poor” or “deficient” and that they don’t really know who did what to whom.

I stopped reading right here. This statement overwhelmingly demonstrates your substantial anti cop bias. Nothing you say from that point on has any weight whatsoever.

 

[PotatoMedic]

I don’t want to get banned or get the thread locked, but I will say this: there’s a reason they’re covering their faces and trying to be relatively anonymous, and it ain’t doxxing. They are attempting to avoid future accountability for their behavior, and I would not be at all surprised to learn in the future that record-keeping was “poor” or “deficient” and that they don’t really know who did what to whom.

These people appear to be grossly unprofessional, untrained and are clearly operating in an environment where what oversight they do have is focused on metrics other than polite, professional, respectful conduct. That’s not to say that immigration enforcement is a clean or easy business, but I don’t think even the most pro-ICE posters here can make a solid argument that ICE and hangers-on isn’t actively trolling American society either.

Bookmark this for 2027 and beyond…

There have been excesses and likely criminal violations, there will be more and worse before accountability is forcibly installed. Eventually, there will be investigations and criminal charges, and the lawsuits are going to be expensive, painful and deeply expository of a culture and command structure that is deeply offensive to human rights, American law and the well-being of citizens and people in general; this is going to do immense damage to the institution of law enforcement on every level that will take generations to even begin to repair. Joe Friday, Pete Malloy and Jim Reed are long, long, long gone and it will be very difficult to convince anyone that LE at any level can be trusted, no matter how many Live PD “saves” get broadcast.

And we, in EMS and Fire, are going to get the wake of that loss of trust, because most people are silly and can’t differentiate well between us.

What about accountability for the protesters who have thrown frozen water bottles, bricks, rocks. Who have tried to take firearms. Who cover their faces with masks maybe, to use your words, "to avoid future accountability for their behavior."

I also wonder if these federal judges have the authority to tell them what crowd control measures they are or aren't allowed to use. I honestly don't know. But im tired of people loving the federal courts when it goes their way and saying it needs to be abolished when it doesn't.

Peaceful protests I'm all for. Assaulting anyone, destroying property in the name some cause. Pound sand even if i agree with you.

My final word on this is i don't like hypocrisy. And i see a lot of hypocrisy in politics right now.

 

[ffemt8978]

I don’t want to get banned or get the thread locked, but I will say this: there’s a reason they’re covering their faces and trying to be relatively anonymous, and it ain’t doxxing. They are attempting to avoid future accountability for their behavior, and I would not be at all surprised to learn in the future that record-keeping was “poor” or “deficient” and that they don’t really know who did what to whom.

These people appear to be grossly unprofessional, untrained and are clearly operating in an environment where what oversight they do have is focused on metrics other than polite, professional, respectful conduct. That’s not to say that immigration enforcement is a clean or easy business, but I don’t think even the most pro-ICE posters here can make a solid argument that ICE and hangers-on isn’t actively trolling American society either.

Bookmark this for 2027 and beyond…

There have been excesses and likely criminal violations, there will be more and worse before accountability is forcibly installed. Eventually, there will be investigations and criminal charges, and the lawsuits are going to be expensive, painful and deeply expository of a culture and command structure that is deeply offensive to human rights, American law and the well-being of citizens and people in general; this is going to do immense damage to the institution of law enforcement on every level that will take generations to even begin to repair. Joe Friday, Pete Malloy and Jim Reed are long, long, long gone and it will be very difficult to convince anyone that LE at any level can be trusted, no matter how many Live PD “saves” get broadcast.

And we, in EMS and Fire, are going to get the wake of that loss of trust, because most people are silly and can’t differentiate well between us.

Right, it has absolutely nothing to do with the actual doxing incidents that have happened, or bounties actually being offered for their killing.

 

[ffemt8978]

Why is ICE, a federal immigration-enforcement organization, sortieing out onto public property to assault a peacefully-protesting American citizen who is in no meaningful way disruptive of their operations?

Why is CBP chief Gregory Bovino on video tossing CS gas canisters into a crowd of peaceful protesters on a city street, despite a federal court injunction against doing exactly that?

Why are American citizens being disappeared for days by LEOs who have no authority to arrest them, because they are only empowered to enforce immigration law against non-citizens? (George Retes, SoCal)

Why are ICE officers doing things like explosive breaches in SWAT raids on the homes of American citizens? Super-great intelligence on those…but it’s OK because Kristi Noem is in attendance.

For that matter, where’s the training and professionalism? I’m 110% certain that most of the LEOs out there are looking at ICE’s behavior and know it wouldn’t be acceptable.

So you're definition of peaceful protests includes protesters attempting to run over agents, physically block them from doing their job, etc...?

The reason they go out into public to do those "assaults" you claim? Did you even bother to stop and think for the half second to realize it may be due to local law enforcement NOT enforcing the laws to keep the protests peaceful?

As far as the use of CS and the courts, I'm not going to comment about that because the appeals process is still ongoing.

Even though they're primarily suposoed to enforce immigration law, they're still federal law enforcement agents with the power to arrest and detain anyone for violating federal laws.

The explosive entry SWAT raids? Yeah, they have probably have absolutely nothing to do with the subject of the raid, their criminal history, or their history of weapon possession because you're "110% certain" every other cop in the world disagrees with them and agrees with you simply because you said so.

 

[ffemt8978]

So far, this thread hasn't risen to the level of needing to be locked or people getting banned. As long as it remains civil, and the arguments are directed towards the content and not the poster it will remain open since it has proven highly informative on how people let their political bias and prejudice interfere with their reasoning and critical thinking skills...which opens up the possibility of a future discussion on how that effects those same skills in an EMS environment .

 

[RocketMedic]

ICE raids home, terrorizing American citizens…

edited, but for clarity, ICE is clearly pretty sloppy, and their trolling of the political “left” will inevitably have institutional, cultural and financial consequences.