DragonClaw
Emergency Medical Texan
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the 100% directionless thread
- Thread starter KEVD18
- Start date
DesertMedic66
Forum Troll
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With some employers, yes. If you sign up for a 36 or 48 hour shift and you are unable to finish the shift, it will lead to a write up. Crew fatigue hasn’t been adopted by a decent amount of ground agencies. Some of the ones who have adopted it have only done it partially.
So if you called dispatch/supervisor the best you would get is “we will put a second unit up there and you guys will be second in for calls but the first in unit can be moved outside your area.
Heck, some of our local fire stations who run stand up 48, 72, 96 hour shifts don’t have any sort of fatigue policy and you are expected to be able to deal with it.
CALEMT
The Other Guy/ Paramaybe?
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My old station averaged 40-70 calls in a 72 hour shift. Most I’ve done in a 24 hour period was 26 calls.
Most places don’t have fatigue policies. Where I’m at now we have the opportunity to rest if we do t have a call and if it got really bad I’d have told the captain I need a break and been able to take a nap.
DragonClaw
Emergency Medical Texan
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Well if it's between me and my partner getting so tired we crash. I'll call it. I'm not doing that to either of us or a pt.
I've done it once before. 3 back to back shifts with a 36. Sup didn't give us any grief. If we look bad enough after shift they tell us to sleep in our car or on the couch. I haven't heard them get mad at anyone for exhaustion, most of us work hard.
We're system status hold right now. So we'll probably bonus.
Have fun with that. I’ve pulled over on the side of the road before coming back from LDT because me and my partner were exhausted. We don’t get grief for that. Normally happens when we are on the road starting at 11pm and not coming back till 2am or later.
VentMonkey
Family Guy
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This. Crew rest, and safety naps. Score one for the folks at CAMTS.
Jim37F
Forum Deputy Chief
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You're right in the sense that of course you should be able to call for fatigue, more EMTs have probably been killed/hurt by falling asleep at the wheel than any other cause
Only reason you'd be wrong is as the others have said, Employers with their head stuck in the sand 30 years ago don't wanna lose a revenue generating unit cuz someone is tired or whatever
Some places are more lenient than others. It all depends on your management and how far you're willing to fight, how much they're willing to fight, etc
Back at my last job there was a story of a guy who tried to call out for fatigue mid shift. The company offered to have him go to HQ, set up a cot, and rack out for like 4 hours and then try and finish shift (idk if the guy was on a 12 hr "day car" w/out a set station or a 24hr unit with a station, or how long he had left on shift or anything...
I do know the drama came when instead of just going to HQ to rack put, he apparently argued to just go home instead, and be done with shift already...
I believe he ended up using a sick leave policy or whatever to go home... and every time a Supe or someone else higher up talked about it, ypu could tell the whole thing left a bad taste in their mouths and they were sure he was abusing the policy, and they told us, "If you're gonna call out fatigue, you will come to HQ and rack out on a cot here for 4 hours, and go from there"
CALEMT
The Other Guy/ Paramaybe?
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That sounds like a term that I as a fire medic would be using. Don’t take my stupidity bro...
DragonClaw
Emergency Medical Texan
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Wdym have fun with that? Not risking an unnecessary crash (are there necessary ones) because we just can't go on safely?
Not my words. Intermittent failure to capture does not me my definition of refractory asystole. I briefly thought they wanted us to fly a working code interfacility.
RocketMedic
Californian, Lost in Texas
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Creek, for example, had absolutely no fatigue-management provisions and going OOS for fatigue would result in a “verbal counseling” at best, depending on if they subjectively liked you. If you pressed the issue, they would escalate up the progressive discipline system, because clearly the failure is yours to be ready to work and “it’s only 24 hours.” People who complained got fired. People who advocated for safer practices got fired. People who declined a call got fired. Simple as that...if you were on-shift, you ran the call assigned. Dumb, yes. But that’s the attitude in most EMS. Calling for a break typically puts a target on you from management as a malcontent, malingerer or simply weak. Also tends to make you unpopular with coworkers because they’re having to fill your assignment, taking their time too. You’ll find humans aren’t very sympathetic when they’re tired and missing sleep because you’re snoring away.
And yes, there have been collisions and injuries due to fatigue. “Cost of doing business” was how I heard it. I suppose they felt that it was cheaper to buy a new truck and/or pay off some settlement than to add more resources or change their ways. Truck 75 got totaled on 249 when a supervisor on a stand-up 36 fell asleep and drove it into the concrete barriers. Tore up the truck and module, threw everyone around inside, concussion for the patient...and nothing changed. It won’t, until someone dies on a way so directly related to fatigue that it is undeniable AND that family wins a gargantuan settlement. Or until some terrible crash causes insurers and/ or state regulators to cap hours. Either way, the road to safety is paved in blood.
And yes, there have been collisions and injuries due to fatigue. “Cost of doing business” was how I heard it. I suppose they felt that it was cheaper to buy a new truck and/or pay off some settlement than to add more resources or change their ways. Truck 75 got totaled on 249 when a supervisor on a stand-up 36 fell asleep and drove it into the concrete barriers. Tore up the truck and module, threw everyone around inside, concussion for the patient...and nothing changed. It won’t, until someone dies on a way so directly related to fatigue that it is undeniable AND that family wins a gargantuan settlement. Or until some terrible crash causes insurers and/ or state regulators to cap hours. Either way, the road to safety is paved in blood.
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DesertMedic66
Forum Troll
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Give me a Lucas or autopulse with the right patient and the appropriate receiving facility and I might be inclined to fly them.
CALEMT
The Other Guy/ Paramaybe?
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Loved having a autopulse at my previous station.
RocketMedic
Californian, Lost in Texas
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Also even if there is a fatigue-management policy at your employer it is highly subject to being monitored, retroactively judged and rationed, and I’ll guarantee you that actively/assertively using it puts a target on your back. No, it’s not nice or right or good and it’s definitely not safe, but it’s reality.
DragonClaw
Emergency Medical Texan
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What's autopulse
DragonClaw
Emergency Medical Texan
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I GOT THE HOSPICE PT'S BROWN FOLEY PEE ON ME. (No iso)
It was leaking in several places and once it started it didn't stop.
Remember me as I fade away from this planet.
It was leaking in several places and once it started it didn't stop.
Remember me as I fade away from this planet.
RocketMedic
Californian, Lost in Texas
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Zoll version of lucas