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charlie135

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Do any of you carry defensive weapons (knife, baton) for a worst case scenario when all the **** hits the fan? Is this even legal?
 
charlie135 said:
a worst case scenario when all the **** hits the fan?
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I'm not going to presume to figure out the worst case scenario, but let's look at two bad ones. I'll even assume, unrealistically, that you know the patient's intent and have time to make reasonable decisions.

Patient is unarmed and wants to harm you.
Without weapon:
  • One of you runs away and the police have to handle it.
  • One of you beats on the other and you have an impressive incident report to fill out.
With weapon:
  • You use lethal force on an unarmed patient.
  • The patient takes your weapon and uses lethal force on you.
  • The same options you had without a weapon.

Patient is armed and wants to harm you:
Without weapon:
  • One of you runs away and the police have to handle it.
  • You are seriously injured.
With weapon:
  • You seriously injure the patient
  • Both of you are seriously injured.
  • As above.

And so on. I'm not seeing much benefit here.
 
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I personally do not carry weapons, and probably wont, but was interested to see if it is a practice followed by some. I do carry a folding pocket tool with a knife in it just for random stuff (you never know when they will come in handy). I do wish my company provided me with a knife/bullet resistant vest.

That said, if my life were about to end, I might try and use my multi-tool to give me some time while PD arrives.
 
No.

I did run in to the situation at the clinic in which a patient's SO was out of control. The doctor was trying to manage it diplomatically but asked me to take the pepper spray from my purse and put it in my pocket, and stay with her until it was resolved.
 
Nope. A multitool with knife in it stays in my backpack for odd jobs though... but I usually have that pack with me whereever I go.

When I'm off work though I do carry a concealed firearm and a knife, but it stays locked up when I'm at work.
 
What else would the scalpel in the OB kit be used for?!
 
I am against bringing guns to EMS.

Learn self defense and be prepared.
 
I've had a pocket knife since I was 8 (lived in the country) but I don't consider it as a weapon. A maglite is usually a better self defense weapon than a knife. ;) My 911 company has a maglite within reach of the driver in all the EMS vehicles, but that's more for having a flashlight available. However...

Most companies/services specifically ban their people from carrying weapons (spray, taser, guns, whatever), but I know of some guys who keep a small pistol in a hidden waist or ankle holster when they work in the gang areas. Of course, these guys also have permits for them and know how and when to use their weapons and have never yet drawn them.

I think it's important for EMTs and medics to NOT "carry". In some dangerous areas, the crews are safe only because the gangs know that the ambulance crews are there solely to save lives. If they had to worry about the ambulance crews carrying weapons, they might shoot at them, too. Why endanger the lives of all of the various emergency and transport crews?
 
charlie135 said:
Do any of you carry defensive weapons (knife, baton) for a worst case scenario when all the **** hits the fan? Is this even legal?
Click to expand...

I carry pens and trauma shears. Also, the bell on my Littman (when swung pretty hard) could pack a punch. Do those count as weapons?

But seriously, no, I don't carry any weapons (not even a knife). Even when I go on to a bigger or more dangerous area, I won't carry a weapon; I'll just wear a vest. We're not cops. We're there for medical purposes only. A weapon just adds another element that shouldn't be there. What happens if the patient gets that weapon? You could very easily unwittingly arm a patient or bystander.
 
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Oh for the love of all that's holy and pure........

........:deadhorse::censored::censored::censored::censored:

You know, even if some nimrod company allows their folks to carry weapons, or anything designed or intended to be a weapon, it is against the law. In California, a tire iron carried in the passenger compartment can be considered a concealed weapon. Grow up.
 
mycrofft said:
In California, a tire iron carried in the passenger compartment can be considered a concealed weapon.
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...but it's perfectly legal to open carry an unloaded firearm provided a few restrictions (i.e. unarmed victim school zones). Gotta love the People's Republik of Kalifornia.
 
Screw that. That is why we have police. And what about kevlar vests, who wears those? I always die a little inside when I see EMTs in rural settings wearing those damn things. I want to laugh incessantly when a person from hicktown, Midwestown USA thinks he (and she) has more than a one in 30,000,000 chance in getting shot that day.* And it's my understanding that they don't protect against blunt force trauma nor do they protect against stabbings. Now of course urban areas/high crime areas are different and I'm aware of at least one service in Indy requires it's EMTs to wear them. Feel free to correct any factual inaccuracies.

*Note: this is not an actual statistic based on factual data but rather a best guess that is concurrently used in jest used for comedic affect. But I have a feeling the actual statistic is not far off.
 
part of the requirements for my school is the manditory use of level 2 ballestic vests or level 2 stab vests depending on where we end up for practicum as well as we offer "blade war" classes and a varity of self defence classes. personally wear a level2 vest with special threat plates and i do carry a "rescue" knife that has a glass break and belt cutter on my belt.
ballestic vests are also part of the standard uniform in many areas in my provience
 
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When seconds count, the police are minutes away.

May I introduce you to Warren v DC? One of the many cases that say that the police have no duty to provide anything resembling a response?
 
Rule #1: I don't have to outrun the bear, I just have to out run you.
Rule #2: Train to run in boots.
 
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usafmedic45 said:
Rule #1: I don't have to outrun the bear, I just have to out run you.
Rule #2: Train to run in boots.
Click to expand...


Exactley, just be faster then your partner and your all set.
 
JPINFV said:
When seconds count, the police are minutes away.
May I introduce you to Warren v DC? One of the many cases that say that the police have no duty to provide anything resembling a response?
Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
Is that a joke? I just vomited all over my ballistic vest. (As much as I hate to cite wikipedia). Why are paramedics getting sued for not transporting patients that subsequently die and cops get away with letting women get rapped? I hate this country so much.
 
Bloom-IUEMT said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
Is that a joke? I just vomited all over my ballistic vest. (As much as I hate to cite wikipedia). Why are paramedics getting sued for not transporting patients that subsequently die and cops get away with letting women get rapped? I hate this country so much.
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1) I love how you just compared our duty to respond to a non-violent medical emergency, to an officers duty to respond to a violent call.

We aren't required to go on scene if there is violence, and neither are they. North Hollywood shootout anyone?



2) Get out of the country if you hate it so much.
 
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you know.....

ah...


nevermind..

its pointless...

I know what i do or dont do.... i just wont bother to share here.. :rolleyes:
 
Linuss said:
1) I love how you just compared our duty to respond to a non-violent medical emergency, to an officers duty to respond to a violent call.
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You call what happened in the Warren v DC case a "response?" That's like paramedics leaving a 911 call because no one answers the door is a "response." I'm so happy that you can condone missing multiple 911 calls and a response consisting on "hmm, no one answers when I knock" that leads to 3 ladies being raped, abused, and robbed for several hours.

We aren't required to go on scene if there is violence, and neither are they. North Hollywood shootout anyone?
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In what version of reality were there not police on scene at North Hollywood? Maybe if you consider "on scene" as being limited to the lobby of the bank. However, I guess that in the Pittsburgh case, on scene was considered being a few blocks away and demanding that the patient walk to the ambulance.
 
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