Universal health care peaking round the corner again

[Melbourne MICA]

Information from a major US health study released this week - the number 3 leading cause of death in the US today after heart disease and cancer?????

Lack of private health insurance.

I kid you not.

(I will try and find the details of the study - I heard this info from an ABC (Australian Broadcasting Commission) radio report this morning - missed where the study was done). One anecdote provided was a woman who was diagnosed with Leukaemia and phoned to arrange the commencement of her treatment programme. She was told (before any other information was given) to bring a cheque for $45,000 otherwise she would not be treated.

Another reported "fact" was the average annual private health insurance premium for Joe Citizen in the US is...........$14,000!!!!!! Since the average mortgage takes about 1/3 of your annual income, this health bill must be at least another 1/3 - sound about right??

The point made about these facts was the study revealed that as much harm is being done to those who under insure as to those who have none at all.

Also reported was the fact that many of the leading critics and opponents of Hillary Clintons Universal Health Care Bill shot down in the mid 1990's are now apparently prepared to support a new one by Obama.

Universal health care may be back on the agenda again. I would love to hear some real stories from you US EMS guys rather thean the filtered crap you get through the media.

And no - it is not to trumpet how wonderful health systems are elsewhere including here in Aussie land.

I just want to know from the best people to ask - ambos. You see it all and work smack bang in the middle of the system. Not trying to stir up a fuss just interested - I think this health care battle is going to be incredibly important for everyone as I said in another post from before Christmas on the same subject.

Cheers guys

MM

PS Unless my memory fails me, the info came form Obamas working group on helath care and this was some of its findings. I appreciate some might see some political tarring of these results from Obamas side - however it doesn't seem to me that there is anything to be gained politically for him by dishing out more doctored (pardon the word play) doom and gloom.

 

[PapaBear434]

I'm all for a universal health care service. It's time we as Americans join the rest of the civilized world and cover the people who need it most. We should be ashamed that a middle class family that has done everything right and paid all their bills on time and invested like they were told they should can completely be wiped out for life if someone has the audacity to get sick. Even if you HAVE coverage, half the time the insurance company will try to deny stuff like chemotherapy because they deem it "experimental."

Come on, America. Just because other countries do it doesn't mean we shouldn't or that it's bad. Some things France does is actually GOOD and we could learn from them.

 

[Ridryder911]

I'm all for it, as soon as the countries that owe us money pay it back we will have enough to pay for it.

Again, what bullish crap. Sorry, but as of yet I have not seen anyone not receive direct emergency care because of non-payment. Now, they may not be able to recieve the additonal care, that I will not debate.

Also, what credible source did those numbers come from? From what I remember, Trauma is the fourth leading cause of death; definitely not lack of insurance.

Do we have problems? You bet! Now, let's get thing in proportion; stop giving foreign aid (yeah, that means to France and others that have Socialized medicine) and start placing money back into our own pot and start taking care of ourselves. Let's quit proctecting countries such South Korea and yes even Germany and again, worry about ourselves.

Strangely, I remember reading the billions of dollars we had spent on countries after wartime events to "re-build" them. Ironically, we never see aid in money when we have a disaster. How many countries offerred financial aid or even support when we had disaster or attacks?

Socialized medicine maybe great for some, yet again someone has to pay for it. It does not "magically" appear. One way or another the monies has to come from someone and that is from the working middle class.

No thanks, I'm taxed enough.

R/r 911

 

[Sasha]

. Sorry, but as of yet I have not seen anyone not receive direct emergency care because of non-payment.

People need more than direct emergency care, they need preventitve care and care for things BEFORE they reach the emergency level. People cannot afford to see doctors, so that burning when they pee is ignored until they've got urosepsis and they're dying and require a hospital or possibly ICU stay. They still aren't going to be able to pay for it, of course.

The country will benefit, in the long run, from people who can afford to take care of themselves. They generally live longer, healthier and more productive lives. And pay taxes longer.

When people are given other options besides the ER for treatment, maybe there will be a decrease in the "I hurt my toe three days ago and I feel I should go see a doctor but I have no insurance" ambulance runs.

And before anyone brings up medicaid as an option, medicaid gives benefits to people based on income, trying to squeeze people into a formula that a family of such and such size that makes more than whatever set amount should be able to afford health insurance. People are diverse with diverse situations, you can't possibly cover it all in a formula.

 

[JPINFV]

How much of personal health care funding comes from improper prioritization? Are the same people who are clamoring for socialized health care going out every day for Star Bucks and eating out 5 times a week? Is it that people can't afford proper health care or won't budget enough for health care if they have the means to support themselves?

 

[Sasha]

How much of personal health care funding comes from improper prioritization? Are the same people who are clamoring for socialized health care going out every day for Star Bucks and eating out 5 times a week? Is it that people can't afford proper health care or won't budget enough for health care if they have the means to support themselves?

I'm sure there are people who refuse to budget for health care, but what about those who would have to pay absurd insurance premiums due to pre-exsisting conditions? Or the people who aren't going out for Star Bucks and eating out five times a week, but have been eating nothing but ramen noodles for two weeks who can't afford to spend the extra money on premiums?

I did a quick BCBS quote (On my 50+ something mom.) and the cheapest premium would be $288. That's as much as my car payment. Co-Pays are $35 for a regular visit, $50 for a specialist. If someone was struggling to make rent, that $288 could be the difference of having a home and being homeless. Many can't afford to be insured.

 

[Shishkabob]

I hate this whole "millions of Americans are without healthcare". Guess what? Those numbers are tainted!

Homeless don't have it because they can't afford it. Many college kids and young adults don't have it because they simply don't see the need to spend that amount of money on something they may not use for 10 years. Foolish? Maybe, but still somewhat true.



Here's the real answer to the healthcare system--- get rid of people taking advantage of it.

If everyone would have paid their bills, then the hospitals wouldn't have to charge more to recuperate their losses, and insurance companies wouldn't have to pay more to the hospitals, and people wouldn't have to pay higher premiums.

Sorry, it's a fact-- just like the current housing market, if people would have not taken advantage of it and paid their bills, we wouldn't be in this position. Are there people who truly need help? Yes, and they deserve it. But not the lazy portion of the country, not ever.


I don't want my money that I worked hard for going to some lazy person who refuses to do his part. My money is much more useful elsewhere in the country then promoting laziness.


I'm ALL for helping those who try as hard as they can and still need help. I'm NOT for helping those with the "woe is me" attitude.

 

[Sasha]

Many college kids and young adults don't have it because they simply don't see the need to spend that amount of money on something they may not use for 10 years. Foolish? Maybe, but still somewhat true.

That is more than foolish, it's just plain ignorant. Illness knows no age limit. If I hadn't had insurance when I sought treatment for a crippling disorder, I wouldn't have been able to afford it and probably would not be here today. And I'm a "college kid young adult" I'm only 21. And guess what? Everyone but ONE person that I had been in treatment with was under the age of 25. We were all young adults!

Then you've got things HIV/AIDS, Hepatitis, various cancers, broken bones, diabetes, UTIs, torn ligaments, a ton of other things that yes, young adults can get too and costs money to take care of! You can't NOT take care of those things.

If everyone would have paid their bills, then the hospitals wouldn't have to charge more to recuperate their losses, and insurance companies wouldn't have to pay more to the hospitals, and people wouldn't have to pay higher premiums.

Maybe people could afford to pay their bills if they could afford insurance. But the cost of health care is so outrageous many people simply just can't afford to pay. What do you expect them to do? Go homeless to pay off a hospital bill?

Homeless don't have it because they can't afford it.

And that is a HUGE problem! Are they not more prone to getting sick than the average adult?

 

[dfd3036]

Universal Health

I am new to this site, but as I am definately not a supporter of Michael Moore I will encourage anyone with questions about Univeral Healthcare to watch his movie Sicko. I was actually getting angry with being an American after watching this movie. Alot of points in the movie make you think, but one that stands in my mind is when he was talking to a Englishman about when England started there Universal Healthcare. The guy just explain that when England started theirs they were a war-torn country that was bankrupt after WWII. If it worked for them how come it couldnt work for us?


Just my 2 cents. Thanks for reading

 

[Shishkabob]

Because Moore doesn't taint or turn things in his favor in ANY of his movies to further his agenda.


I know quite a few Canadians who hate national health care because of many reasons.

 

[PapaBear434]

How much of personal health care funding comes from improper prioritization? Are the same people who are clamoring for socialized health care going out every day for Star Bucks and eating out 5 times a week? Is it that people can't afford proper health care or won't budget enough for health care if they have the means to support themselves?

My wife is a nurse in the US Navy. We have completely free health care. I still want universal health care.

 

[PapaBear434]

Because Moore doesn't taint or turn things in his favor in ANY of his movies to further his agenda.


I know quite a few Canadians who hate national health care because of many reasons.

I have family in Canada. When I went to visit them, I busted my shoulder up pretty good. A doctor visit at the local acute care clinic, with hardly any wait despite their being busy, cost me NOTHING.

I tried to give them my TriCare card, told them I had insurance, but they just told me it wasn't needed and they hoped I felt better. I got some pain killers from the pharmacy for about $4.00 American, and HE told me that he hoped my stay in Canada went smoother than it had so far.

Basically, I'm saying that my family has yet to have any of the trouble with the "OMG WAIT TIMES AND LOUSY CARE" boogiemen that the right loves to bring up anytime someone mentions universal health care, and they even treated a non resident with excellent care when they really didn't have too. And they have yet to go bankrupt or let their society collapse under the horrible weight of having to take care of those lazy sick people with cancer they can't afford.

 

[Shishkabob]

Now you're just being choosing to ignore the facts Papabear;

There is a HUGE difference between being lazy and not being able to do something... MONUMENTAL. If someone chooses not to do something, but is capable, they are lazy. If someone is injured and can't do something, then they are not. The ones that CAN'T do something are the ones that need the help, not the ones that choose not to better themselves.


Why should the people who work hard pick up the tab for those who choose not to help themselves, if so capable? There is no logical reasoning for that.


Don't know how I can make that any more clear.

 

[JPINFV]

Why should the people who work hard pick up the tab for those who choose not to help themselves, if so capable? There is no logical reasoning for that.

Who is John Galt?

 

[Ridryder911]

I think I find it ironic and funny it is the out of countrymen that was us to have Socialized medicine. Of course they do not understand that are Pharmaceutical companies make trillions and more from the U.S. Citizens. If it was not for us paying for the research, marketing; guess what their government prices would be.

Yes, go to another foreign country or even neighboring one. Purchase presecreptive medicaitions and see the cost difference. Why? Because, we foot the bill for others. So heck yes, bring the socialized medicine on! Then let the other countries make up the difference. I believe we will a different attitude when their countries no longer can afford the medication too.

Sasha hit the most important key though. Preventitive medication. Problem is most U.S. citizens are too lazy to participate. I was a House Supv at a IHS Hospital; every day we would have at least 300 awaiting for the clinic (non-scheduled) and about 25 for the scheduled side. All the same types of problems, all aware if they would had called just prior the waiting would be shorter. When asked ; Why not? The answer was always the same.. Ididn't have the time; or I thought I could get in faster".. The same with medications. Free health care, free medications and guess what? Non-compliancy is incredibly high! So there is a small snippit of U.S. having socialized medicine.

Yes, reduce the costs as long as there is active preventitive participation. I don't mind giving a hand up but not a hand out.

R/r 911

 

[Veneficus]

just some numbers.

The average healthcare plan costs US families 12K a year.

The average family income for 2 working adults in the US is less than 50K a year.

Not everyone is fortunate enough to have a healthcare job. Many couldn't afford insurance if they wanted it, and countless are under insured. One of my friends had "insurance" and worked hard all her life. Her 80/20 plan, left her 10K in debt after one acute illness. She has no other medical problems.

I know all the conservative people think everyone is getting a hand out. I don't like my taxes raised either, but the truth is we are paying for it through taxes. Look at the medicare/medicade budgets. Nobody here with a job gets any benefit from that. So rearranging the taxes so you do get something might be good.

Every medical "expert" I have met dealing with healthcare funding in the US has been claiming socialized is the only realistic way. I am not exactly a bleeding heart liberal, but the "i don't want to pay for somebody else" line or the "we'll have to wait in line," "don't get to choose our doctor," we "fund everyone elses healthcare," lines are BS. The reasons other countries have what they do is because they made is a priority, chose to pay for it, and will not pay health insurance companies to deny healthcare or allow pharm. companies to bilk the paying populous.

If you want to be part of the solution, take a pragmatic look instead of party line. But I have come to not expect much in the way of pragmatism from religious zealots and the party of down south white boys.

 

[Ridryder911]

Ven just ask a neurosurgeon if they support Socialized medicine? And ask any specialized surgeon the same thing, then see if they want to see a "cap" placed upon their salaries and payment structures with limitations.

Just check into AMA political forum to see their view

R/r 911

 

[Veneficus]

There is inefficent payment structures now.

The AMA also represents the old guard best interests. Truthfully if somebody told me my salary cap would be $180,000 a year (or 90K GBP, base) I wouldn't complain. (after my 5 year residency and 2-4 year fellowship in addition to my 10 academic years) But also consider that right out of school the pay at NHS is 32k GBP which is considerably more than the $42k average for a intern. The top pay to consultant physicians (aka attendings) is 173,638GBP.

At todays exchange rate that is $237,884.06 a year. Of course that doesn't include the fact of a 40 hour work week, considerably less in malpractice insurance and schooling doesn't cost nearly as much. What a tragedy it would be to only have to accept 1/4 of a million dollars a year working 40 hours. I will remember to cry a tear for the neurosurgeons tonight that can't bear the thought.

There are also location bounuses, like a 20% increase for working in central london vs. a 15% increase for working BFE.

I have no doubt that people benefiting from todays mess in medicine don't want it to go away.

The AMA also doesn't want hospitals accepting foreign school students to pay for clinical slots because it is only a matter of time before the American students will have to also. (which will put a bite in the pockets of medical universities, and divine entity forbid American students pay an equal share for something.)

But maybe some wealthy Americans can stop being greedy and do something for the good of all Americans?

 

[daedalus]

I'm all for it, as soon as the countries that owe us money pay it back we will have enough to pay for it.

Again, what bullish crap. Sorry, but as of yet I have not seen anyone not receive direct emergency care because of non-payment. Now, they may not be able to recieve the additonal care, that I will not debate.

Also, what credible source did those numbers come from? From what I remember, Trauma is the fourth leading cause of death; definitely not lack of insurance.

Do we have problems? You bet! Now, let's get thing in proportion; stop giving foreign aid (yeah, that means to France and others that have Socialized medicine) and start placing money back into our own pot and start taking care of ourselves. Let's quit proctecting countries such South Korea and yes even Germany and again, worry about ourselves.

Strangely, I remember reading the billions of dollars we had spent on countries after wartime events to "re-build" them. Ironically, we never see aid in money when we have a disaster. How many countries offerred financial aid or even support when we had disaster or attacks?

Socialized medicine maybe great for some, yet again someone has to pay for it. It does not "magically" appear. One way or another the monies has to come from someone and that is from the working middle class.

No thanks, I'm taxed enough.

R/r 911

Im with rid/ryder. We already have a nanny state that takes care of irresponsible and reckless people. I will be for universal healthcare only if it is not offered to alcoholics and smokers and obese people(exception for the pathologically obese). They should have to pay a premium. These are modifiable risk factors that contribute to most of our healthcare spending. Yet medicare pays for there once a year ICU stays and they still go out and smoke and rape the taxpayers!!

 

[Sasha]

I will be for universal healthcare only if it is not offered to alcoholics and smokers and obese people

Why stop there? How about women who get cervical cancer after refusing the HPV vaccine? How about ANYONE who gets cancer? We tell people what we think MAY be carcinogens, yet they continue to come in contact with them. How about people in big cities? They KNOW that all that air pollution is bad for their health and they choose to live there anyway. How about we exclude EMTs and Paramedics? They know that they may very well pick something up from their patients, but they continue to work anyway. After all, those are modifiable risk factors.