So Vene, tell me, people who contribute absolutely NOTHING to taxes should be able to reap the benefits? How does that make sense?.
Does that include people who get all of the tax they pay back? How about the people who get earned income credit, not only do they get it all back, they get extra on top of it. I do not benefit from that, I would wager neither do you. But if you do not give people who have nothing help, they will never be able to give back. Consider the sociology of family inheritence as pointed out by mycrofft in another post. It takes several generations for people to accumulate enough wealth to rise out of poverty. They may not have had much to begin with. It will take some more generations than others. Some people do not even know how to escape the poverty cycle. As I said, it is easy for people who have had opportunity, who recognize opportunity, to look at those without and deem them unworthy. There is just more to the circumstance of poverty than getting a job.
It's one thing to be a child who's parents pay taxes. But if you're a full grown adult and you don't pay taxes, you simply do not deserve the benefits of this country because you don't contribute to it.
Contributon is extremely subjective. Does a stay at home mom who does not have outside employment contribute less to society than say a 25 year old male who works 90 hours a week? What if that mom is on welfare? Does she not benefit society by attempting to properly raise her children?
I'm not saying only people that can afford health insurance should get it; I'm saying, and I'll make this easy on you, that if nationalized health care came a reality, ONLY THOSE THAT PAY TAXES SHOULD GET IT.
That sort of defeats the purpose of nationalized healthcare. Many college students do not pay taxes, should they be excluded? It is a complex world, simplicity does not do it justice. You are paying for medicade, both for disabled people and people without work, should those disabled be cut from the rolls too? I doubt you receive any benefit from medicade.
You have no idea on how my life was in the past 20 years. You don't know where I'm from, how I was raised, if I was in poverty or a rich kid. You don't know if I grew up in ghetto or the richest part of Manhattan. You don't know if my parents were drugees or alcoholics. Hell, you don't know if I'M a drugee or alcoholic.
Does it somehow matter? Neither your nor my history gives either of us the right to determine who is worthy in society and who isn't.I don't support socialized medicine because people deserve or don't. I support it because it is the only economically realistic way to maintain the health of a society as demonstrated around the world. If one citizen is entitled, then all should be entitled, based on citizenship not revenue generating ability.
Without health the amount of producers in society diminishes. That means us working people have to pay more for them since our society has decided we don't want corpses laying where they fall because they could not afford care. In all the numbers I have seen not put out by an insurance lobby over the last 8 years, socialized medicine will cost you less than you are paying now, for everyone to benefit.
So please, don't make any such assumption, as you appear to be an ignorant fool when you do.
There are many crazy, ignorant fools I wouldn't mind being grouped in with. Musashi is one of them, simplemindedness appears foolish to me.
Don't you EVER dare tell me I don't care about people or my country.
All the people or some of the people? How many would you leave to die who don't pay taxes? How many would you help pay from your own pocket for the betterment of society at large? At least twice in this post and 3 times in this thread you have said you don't support that. If you don't want me to think that way, don't say it.
I joined the military at 18 to do my duty and got injured. Have you ever joined?.
I am well aware of the psychological dogma of serving and sacrificing for country. Infact I remember in bootcamp the company commander telling us to lay down and pretend we were dead and how much such a sacrifice would mean while blasting a recording of America the beautiful.
Furthermore, if my knowledge of history serves me, the very word "soldier" comes from the coin that they were paid by the Romans for serving in the legion. It had nothing to do with loyalty to country outside of a profession in society. I also knew that little tidbit prior to enlisting. So when I "volunteered" aka signed an enlistment contract, I knew very well that any sacrifice I might endure was not only simply an occupational hazard, but was more for the whims of those who needed violent solutions to their problems than it would be for my country.
"The true nature of war is to serve itself" -Clausewitz.
I am sorry to tell you all the "leadership types" that always praise your sacrifice are paying you little more than lip service. If you doubt it look at veteren care since Korea, I think it is absolutely appaling and tremendously insulting, but you don't see society holding a protest and demanding better do you? Maybe a few people here and there. Are the homeless vets paying taxes? Should we add to the list tax payers and veterens? The point is you can't fairly determine who should be included or excluded.
Moreover, nowhere in my enlistment contract, written, or verbal responsibilities did military service confer upon me the authority to judge the value of a human being.
Don't be so quick to judge who is worthy and who is not. Because there is probably somebody higher in society with more influence than both of us together who could judge neither of us worthy and often do. You think for a second my health insurer gives a crap about me? You think they wouldn't deny me treatment in a heartbeat because they didn't think I was worth spending money on treatment for? Think it can't happen to you? Look at the spending for veterns health benefits compared to the costs over years. You really think the former CO of Walter Reed didn't know the conditions injured soldiers were in? Yea, he took the fall for it, but you honestly think if his budget was enough he would have allowed his troops to live like that?
have a look at this:
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/77867/
look at how Nam vets were treated by the society they "sacrificed" for. Many of them were conscripted, they didn't "volunteer." I also very much doubt Vietnam was a threat to the security of the USA. I don't like what happened to them, but the tax paying society still doesn't seem to care. Go ahead and start asking republican represenatives to support a tax increase to help the wounded soldiers they "support and honor" and see where that gets you.
I'm in EMS to help people, that doesn't mean I have to feel pity for those who refuse to help themselves.
A small percentage compared to those who cannot help themselves. You don't beat a child who doesn't know how to tie a shoe for not tying it properly. You have to be better, guide, and use time and resources on them. Sure there are people who don't want to help themselves, but after many years of helping the poorest, I have found that those who don't want help are few, but like in many aspects, the minority are the ones who receive the most attention.
